Things wrong with our club?

[Big_John_10]

A new manager won't solve our problems.

Changing a tire on a car won't help if the engine is ****.

It won't solve all our problems but I believe it would improve us. There's no way this all we can expect.

70 pl games 19w 18d 33l 82f 117a 76 pts

That entire stat line is awful.

[StefanAVFC]

 

Not sure if serious.

 

Ask Mourhino if he thinks Lambert beat him on tactics? Unless Lambert's tactics were to pay off the ref then I think I can guess what the answer would be?

 

 

Are you taking the piss?

We won against Chelsea on merit. It's a bit sad that your blind hatred of Lambert subtracts any credit that he may have remaining.

[Oaks]

A new manager won't solve our problems.

Changing a tire on a car won't help if the engine is ****.

It won't solve all our problems but I believe it would improve us. There's no way this all we can expect.

70 pl games 19w 18d 33l 82f 117a 76 pts

That entire stat line is awful.

And you think that's because of Lambert, and before him McLeish and before him Houllier. This club hasn't spent any significant money for 5 years. Just enough to survive, yet people are surprised when we achieve just that.

I'm tired of waiting for jam tomorrow from this board.

[StefanAVFC]

http://www.nufc.co.uk/articles/2014...2281670_3754161

Pure, unambitious bullshit. Same crap we hear all the time. We won't pay over the odds, "if the deal is right blah blah blah", financially stable. 

He even says we won't accrue any debt for short term gain. I.e. we won't be signing any players until we make enough profit/sell players first to pay for them. Signing "one or two" players a year as well, a far cry from Pardew's "We wuz want 6 or 7 players this summer."

**** off man, this club is rotten and I despise pretty much everyone involved there.

 

 

 

 

Ask Newcastle fans about their club. They'll say the same things we do. It's not a situation unique to us.

[villalad21]

 

 

 

However I don't believe that PL has shown any ability as a coach or tactician.

 

This season has been disappointing but **** me, we've beaten Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal. He got a shit club like Norwich promoted from League 1.

 

 

So what do you get more points for beating them rather than Fulham? No! Didn't think so.

 

I think the point being made was that you don't get the results we've got against the better teams in the league by being a crap tactician.

 

The players carry more blame for the Fulham defeat than PL does IMO. Its not like he's sending them up the tunnel with the instructions "Remember lads, defend like you've only just been introduced." or (vs. Man Utd) "Its a fine of a weeks wages for every goal you score Christian"

 

There is some recieved wisdom in football "By Championship players and that is where you will end up" - half our squad are just that, and that isn't solely Lambert's fault either.

 

I don't think that win had anything to do with Lambert. Our players just seem more up for it against the bigger teams.

[Oaks]

However I don't believe that PL has shown any ability as a coach or tactician.

 

This season has been disappointing but **** me, we've beaten Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal. He got a shit club like Norwich promoted from League 1.

 

So what do you get more points for beating them rather than Fulham? No! Didn't think so.

I think the point being made was that you don't get the results we've got against the better teams in the league by being a crap tactician.

 

The players carry more blame for the Fulham defeat than PL does IMO. Its not like he's sending them up the tunnel with the instructions "Remember lads, defend like you've only just been introduced." or (vs. Man Utd) "Its a fine of a weeks wages for every goal you score Christian"

 

There is some recieved wisdom in football "By Championship players and that is where you will end up" - half our squad are just that, and that isn't solely Lambert's fault either.

I don't think that win had anything to do with Lambert. Our players just seem more up for it against the bigger teams.

Or you could say that the other way...maybe they thought they had to turn up against Fulham. You can't take away the good results to argue your point, it doesn't help with a balanced argument...unless you're Michael Moore.

[Harry]

 

 

 

I have a hunch that fans like me that was brought up on the likes of Saunders, Atkinson,Taylor,Little,Gregory......are a distraction to this administration..

We have an enhanced expectation that they just cannot live up to......Their plan now is to BREED a new fan base to match their managerial skills and rid the club of this notion of trying to succeed....I think they see it as a ridiculous notion, that is beyond our remit.

I think that's the same for most clubs - money is now so important in football that only the very richest clubs have a real chance of success.

That isn't to say that there are problems specific to this club, but the situation with regards to money in football is impossible to ignore now.

Mantis, I say this with a genuine air of sincerity in your comments and I am not foolish enough to say, it can be ignored, money that is.....but I simply don't buy the argument that without money we are doomed, presumably we are talking about the big money.... the Mata type deals and the like.

I will say it again,I simply don't buy that defeatist statement....and lets face it, it is difficult( but then it always was, just more so now) but I am also right, its defeatist.

I sometimes think it is a cop out when you show an example, because no matter what i say you will disagree and counter with just one example or that was then or different league or different circumstance because it wasn't us.

Everton have done it and so did we with some of our previous managers, play top of the table football, that was believeable.....That cost us modest sums.

I heard an Everton fan waxing lyrical on the Stan Collymore show this evening....The fan was praising Moyes and Martinez for different reasons, Stan Said " What did Moyes do for you" ( topical I guess) The fan replied He put discipline in the team, Industry in terms of work rate.... but above all HE BOUGHT QUALITY PLAYERS WITH LITTLE MONEY.....and Martinez has added the flair and guile.

You see, you can build a team with little money......YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHERE TO SHOP AND WHO TO BUY.

bang on, it takes a lot of patience also.

 

Agreed, to a great extent Martinez is reaping the benefits of Moyes hard work over many years. Everton are renowned for having next to no money but have bought and sold well.

 

To keep completely on topic the issue we have is that we just don't have the management structure or seemingly the ability to create a well organised and difficult to beat side. That is where Everton started and where we are so wrong as seemingly the club thinks Lambert is capable of doing 'a Moyes'. Everything I have seen suggests otherwise.

[TRO]

.........This club needs a William Wallace.

[lexicon]

This for me is a really easy question. We have no ethos. No identity. (I'm discounting the horrible negative hoofball as an identity as I becuase I believe that to be the product of necessity not design)

 

Lerner's biggest failing is not the chronic overspend followed by the chronic underspend, its his failure to embed a culture at the club that breeds success. Look at Southampton and Swansea. Clear cultures of poisitive, attractive successful football that persist despire managerial changes.

 

The biggest signing that AVFC could make this season that would guarantee the biggest impact is not a new Manager or that elsuive star player to lead us to glory, its a Chief Exec that has a vision and knows the game. Fortunately for us such a man with a  proven track record in the Premiere League is available.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Nicola Cortese.

 

Randy, Randy sign him up.

 

Look at lower in the table than us with a good chance of being relegated Swansea?

Chronic underspend?

Nicola Cortese who left Southampton with 27m in unpaid transfer fees?

 

Sod that.

[Eames]

 

This for me is a really easy question. We have no ethos. No identity. (I'm discounting the horrible negative hoofball as an identity as I becuase I believe that to be the product of necessity not design)

 

Lerner's biggest failing is not the chronic overspend followed by the chronic underspend, its his failure to embed a culture at the club that breeds success. Look at Southampton and Swansea. Clear cultures of poisitive, attractive successful football that persist despire managerial changes.

 

The biggest signing that AVFC could make this season that would guarantee the biggest impact is not a new Manager or that elsuive star player to lead us to glory, its a Chief Exec that has a vision and knows the game. Fortunately for us such a man with a  proven track record in the Premiere League is available.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Nicola Cortese.

 

Randy, Randy sign him up.

 

Look at lower in the table than us with a good chance of being relegated Swansea?

Chronic underspend?

Nicola Cortese who left Southampton with 27m in unpaid transfer fees?

 

Sod that.

 

I think your view is particularly one-eyed.

 

Swansea are lower in the table but yes.... and the man responsible for that has been sacked - Laudrup. What Swansea have achieved in previous seasons, with Sousa, Martinez and Rodgers has been a development on the "right" style of play, with those principles being part of the club as a whole and not just an incoming manager. Swansea will play the same way whenever the new man starts and it is hard to dispute that the approach has been anything but a roaring success.

 

Not sure why you question the chronic underspend. Lambert has had the resources to deliver the results and the position we find ourselves in. He has maintained PL status and I believe that is his sole success criteria from the club.

 

Unpaid as in "outstanding" or unpaid as in "in default with other clubs asking for transfer bans etc until they are paid" I suspect the former rather than the latter - again you can't deny Southampton's success from L1 upwards and that it has been achieved in the right way.

[MackHaakon]

- Lack of spending in quality players

- Key players are injury-prone (Vlaar, Delph, Gabby, Benteke)

- Manager who overrates the effectiveness of the target man/ quick wingman combo. 

- Players who lack ability at this level, to the extent that the long ball approach is often the only way to get the ball forward

- Home crowd with expectation of decent football from their team which is very rarely met. Disappointed fans + nervous players = lack of fluidity and creativity = bad spiral

[Zatman]

 

Not sure if serious.

 

Ask Mourhino if he thinks Lambert beat him on tactics? Unless Lambert's tactics were to pay off the ref then I think I can guess what the answer would be?

 

 

some very serious allegations there.

[bobzy]

 

Agreed, to a great extent Martinez is reaping the benefits of Moyes hard work over many years. Everton are renowned for having next to no money but have bought and sold well.

 

 

To keep completely on topic the issue we have is that we just don't have the management structure or seemingly the ability to create a well organised and difficult to beat side. That is where Everton started and where we are so wrong as seemingly the club thinks Lambert is capable of doing 'a Moyes'. Everything I have seen suggests otherwise.

 

 

People keep citing the Everton example of some managerial triumph in adversity - and Moyes did indeed do a good job.  However, the start of his reign at Everton was;

 

1st season - Only there for 4 months, survived (aim achieved)

2nd season - Finished 7th(!) and was awarded manager of the year

3rd season - Finished 17th(!) with the lowest points total in the clubs' history

 

This is often completely overlooked for the achievements afterwards which arose solely because Moyes was given time to influence his playing squad and stamp his authority on the club.  Everton didn't go for the knee-jerk reaction after obviously completely failing in the 2003/04 season having finished 7th the campaign before and it paid off.

 

I'm not saying this is necessarily the case at Villa/with Lambert, but I'm tired of hearing shit like "look at how well Moyes did at Everton!" as a dig at Lambert when, essentially, their tenures started in much the same vain (aside from Moyes dragging out a 7th place, of course).

[GENTLEMAN]

That is where Everton started and where we are so wrong as seemingly the club thinks Lambert is capable of doing 'a Moyes'. Everything I have seen suggests otherwise.

 

You do know Moyes in his second full season at Everton finished 17th (39 points)? The following season Everton finished in the top four. You do know Everton were knocked out of cups competitions by lower league opposition?  They came close to winning FA Cup a few times under Moyes.

 

Moyes would have been sacked if some posters on this forum had their way. I think David Moyes is a great example to use in supporting Lambert.

Edited April 8, 2014 by GENTLEMAN

[Mic09]

 

 

Agreed, to a great extent Martinez is reaping the benefits of Moyes hard work over many years. Everton are renowned for having next to no money but have bought and sold well.

 

 

To keep completely on topic the issue we have is that we just don't have the management structure or seemingly the ability to create a well organised and difficult to beat side. That is where Everton started and where we are so wrong as seemingly the club thinks Lambert is capable of doing 'a Moyes'. Everything I have seen suggests otherwise.

 

 

People keep citing the Everton example of some managerial triumph in adversity - and Moyes did indeed do a good job.  However, the start of his reign at Everton was;

 

1st season - Only there for 4 months, survived (aim achieved)

2nd season - Finished 7th(!) and was awarded manager of the year

3rd season - Finished 17th(!) with the lowest points total in the clubs' history

 

This is often completely overlooked for the achievements afterwards which arose solely because Moyes was given time to influence his playing squad and stamp his authority on the club.  Everton didn't go for the knee-jerk reaction after obviously completely failing in the 2003/04 season having finished 7th the campaign before and it paid off.

 

I'm not saying this is necessarily the case at Villa/with Lambert, but I'm tired of hearing shit like "look at how well Moyes did at Everton!" as a dig at Lambert when, essentially, their tenures started in much the same vain (aside from Moyes dragging out a 7th place, of course).

 

Good post. I just can't see us getting a top notch manager, but I believe Lambert will build himself a good sqad over the summer, and will EVENTUALLY build something like Everton did. My expectation for next season is to finish 8th and build on from there. Do you think that if we got Mourinho tomorrow we would somehow go on and beat palace without breaking sweat? 

Lambert should be given one more season. IF he still has us around 15th place, we should then consider giving him the sack. Not because he has lost 3 games in a row, but because he has proven not to build a squad capable of good achievement over 3 seasons.

He has definately build a good enough spine of the team;

You could argue that Guzan, Vlaar, Bertrand, Delph, Benteke, Okore could walk into the Everton team straightaway, while players like Gabby, Karim, Westwood, or even Bacuna could make the bench there. 

If we can build on our foundation of Guzan, Vlaar, Bertrand, Delph, Benteke, Okore, add another 3 quality signings, I dont see why we cant go for the top 8 next season. 

Edited April 8, 2014 by Mic09

[bobzy]

I think everyone (whether opposed to Lambert or otherwise) agrees that this summer/next season are crucial - both in terms of adding quality and also seeing an improvement on the pitch.

 

Lambert's hands are tied to an extent given the financial restrictions he's operating under, and I've certainly defended him for this.  However, you'd hope that after working with the squad for 2 full seasons now, he'd be able to get more out of them next season.  If we're in a similar position (struggle/performance wise rather than position) at the end of next season, I'd probably be looking for a change.  If we're fighting relegation at the end of December, I'd probably also look for a change then.

 

Overall, I think Lambert has something but he hasn't been able to express it in his team as much as he'd have hoped.  Better quality players should improve this.

[GENTLEMAN]

I think everyone (whether opposed to Lambert or otherwise) agrees that this summer/next season are crucial - both in terms of adding quality and also seeing an improvement on the pitch.

 

Lambert's hands are tied to an extent given the financial restrictions he's operating under, and I've certainly defended him for this.  However, you'd hope that after working with the squad for 2 full seasons now, he'd be able to get more out of them next season.  If we're in a similar position (struggle/performance wise rather than position) at the end of next season, I'd probably be looking for a change.  If we're fighting relegation at the end of December, I'd probably also look for a change then.

 

Overall, I think Lambert has something but he hasn't been able to express it in his team as much as he'd have hoped.  Better quality players should improve this.

Which is a fair and sensible opinion. 

[Big_John_10]

When Lambert arrived the vast majority were over the moon with his first transfer window and the approach he took to transfers. Now its used as an excuse.

[Raver50032]

I think everyone (whether opposed to Lambert or otherwise) agrees that this summer/next season are crucial - both in terms of adding quality and also seeing an improvement on the pitch.

 

Lambert's hands are tied to an extent given the financial restrictions he's operating under, and I've certainly defended him for this.  However, you'd hope that after working with the squad for 2 full seasons now, he'd be able to get more out of them next season.  If we're in a similar position (struggle/performance wise rather than position) at the end of next season, I'd probably be looking for a change.  If we're fighting relegation at the end of December, I'd probably also look for a change then.

 

Overall, I think Lambert has something but he hasn't been able to express it in his team as much as he'd have hoped.  Better quality players should improve this.

Yeah, I will go with that, especially since Benteke has been injured again so tragically. I can't see us winning again this season, and the injury situation I guess adds weight to pro-lambertism. I just want this season to finish now so we can dust ourselves down and try and go forward in the summer.

 

I wonder to what extent Benteke's injury will have on his future sale value, and in essence what that means for us and our budget this summer in particular. I doubt I am alone in expecting that Christain was going to be on his velo after the World Cup. I am gutted for him and disappointed for us. Will Paul need to buy another striker to cover for Benteke using money that we would have maybe looked to spend on the face of selling him instead? What does that mean for strengthening the rest of our much needy squad?

 

The problem is - even if we are struggling at Christmas, we are back to square one again with a change of manager. The goalposts won't necessarily have changed. It will still have the veneer of surviving on the cheap to comply with FFP. I'm struggling to see a win-win way out of this circle until the money bubble at the top of the game begins to leach or pop.

 

Will be the first time in my Villa-fanboy tenure that I am actually dreading next season... Three strikes and you're out... maybe.

[DelboyVilla]

 

 

Not sure if serious.

 

Ask Mourhino if he thinks Lambert beat him on tactics? Unless Lambert's tactics were to pay off the ref then I think I can guess what the answer would be?

 

 

Are you taking the piss?

We won against Chelsea on merit. It's a bit sad that your blind hatred of Lambert subtracts any credit that he may have remaining.

 

We won the game because all the players worked hard as a team against a top side which we seem to do quite regularly. A blind hatred of Lambert? I don't hate anyone Stef, hate is a very strong emotion! I rate Lambert job performance in the very poor bracket and out of ten would give him 2 but I do not hate the man. I don't even know him?