Rugeley Villa Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I have a hunch that fans like me that was brought up on the likes of Saunders, Atkinson,Taylor,Little,Gregory......are a distraction to this administration.. We have an enhanced expectation that they just cannot live up to......Their plan now is to BREED a new fan base to match their managerial skills and rid the club of this notion of trying to succeed....I think they see it as a ridiculous notion, that is beyond our remit.I think that's the same for most clubs - money is now so important in football that only the very richest clubs have a real chance of success. That isn't to say that there are problems specific to this club, but the situation with regards to money in football is impossible to ignore now. Mantis, I say this with a genuine air of sincerity in your comments and I am not foolish enough to say, it can be ignored, money that is.....but I simply don't buy the argument that without money we are doomed, presumably we are talking about the big money.... the Mata type deals and the like. I will say it again,I simply don't buy that defeatist statement....and lets face it, it is difficult( but then it always was, just more so now) but I am also right, its defeatist. I sometimes think it is a cop out when you show an example, because no matter what i say you will disagree and counter with just one example or that was then or different league or different circumstance because it wasn't us. Everton have done it and so did we with some of our previous managers, play top of the table football, that was believeable.....That cost us modest sums. I heard an Everton fan waxing lyrical on the Stan Collymore show this evening....The fan was praising Moyes and Martinez for different reasons, Stan Said " What did Moyes do for you" ( topical I guess) The fan replied He put discipline in the team, Industry in terms of work rate.... but above all HE BOUGHT QUALITY PLAYERS WITH LITTLE MONEY.....and Martinez has added the flair and guile. You see, you can build a team with little money......YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHERE TO SHOP AND WHO TO BUY.bang on, it takes a lot of patience also. .....patience, we ought bottle that, and sell it world wide, the amount we have. I can understand why fans are losing patience because were looking at things and there is no improvement and no moments where we can say ok were shit but I can see what he's trying to do. Its really hard at the moment to see any direction. I'm all up for building a team and it might take time but it seems to me that we have wasted 2 seasons and were not much better if any at all. The only positive is that apparantly the books are getting in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGregor1888 Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I have a hunch that fans like me that was brought up on the likes of Saunders, Atkinson,Taylor,Little,Gregory......are a distraction to this administration.. We have an enhanced expectation that they just cannot live up to......Their plan now is to BREED a new fan base to match their managerial skills and rid the club of this notion of trying to succeed....I think they see it as a ridiculous notion, that is beyond our remit. Saunders, Taylor, Atkinson, Little and Gregory all had to face our booing home support at one point or another too. Thank heavens the internet wasn't around back in the mid-seventies when Villa had a right old struggle in our first season back in the top flight. Thank heavens the internet wasn't around when we lost 0-2 at home to Blues in SGT's first game in charge. Thanks heavens the internet wasn't around towards the end of Big Ron's reign or Little's reign...it's no different now to then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I have a hunch that fans like me that was brought up on the likes of Saunders, Atkinson,Taylor,Little,Gregory......are a distraction to this administration.. We have an enhanced expectation that they just cannot live up to......Their plan now is to BREED a new fan base to match their managerial skills and rid the club of this notion of trying to succeed....I think they see it as a ridiculous notion, that is beyond our remit. I think that's the same for most clubs - money is now so important in football that only the very richest clubs have a real chance of success. That isn't to say that there are problems specific to this club, but the situation with regards to money in football is impossible to ignore now. Mantis, I say this with a genuine air of sincerity in your comments and I am not foolish enough to say, it can be ignored, money that is.....but I simply don't buy the argument that without money we are doomed, presumably we are talking about the big money.... the Mata type deals and the like. I will say it again,I simply don't buy that defeatist statement....and lets face it, it is difficult( but then it always was, just more so now) but I am also right, its defeatist. I sometimes think it is a cop out when you show an example, because no matter what i say you will disagree and counter with just one example or that was then or different league or different circumstance because it wasn't us. Everton have done it and so did we with some of our previous managers, play top of the table football, that was believeable.....That cost us modest sums. I heard an Everton fan waxing lyrical on the Stan Collymore show this evening....The fan was praising Moyes and Martinez for different reasons, Stan Said " What did Moyes do for you" ( topical I guess) The fan replied He put discipline in the team, Industry in terms of work rate.... but above all HE BOUGHT QUALITY PLAYERS WITH LITTLE MONEY.....and Martinez has added the flair and guile. You see, you can build a team with little money......YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHERE TO SHOP AND WHO TO BUY. I don't think you really got my point. I'm not necessarily alluding to massive money deals, but at the moment Lambert isn't even getting the kind of money Moyes got at Everton. Your response to everything seems to be "you just need to have nous" but as things stand we are severely limited in who we can bring in due to the financial restrictions. I don't know how you can continue to ignore this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Mantis, your defence of Lambert is admirable. However I don't believe that PL has shown any ability as a coach or tactician. My question is this, do you think that Lambert has the ability to get the best out of better players if we buy them this summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Yes, I do. Generally the players he has spent a bit of money on have looked good at the very least. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 However I don't believe that PL has shown any ability as a coach or tactician. This season has been disappointing but **** me, we've beaten Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal. He got a shit club like Norwich promoted from League 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Eames Posted April 7, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) This for me is a really easy question. We have no ethos. No identity. (I'm discounting the horrible negative hoofball as an identity as I becuase I believe that to be the product of necessity not design) Lerner's biggest failing is not the chronic overspend followed by the chronic underspend, its his failure to embed a culture at the club that breeds success. Look at Southampton and Swansea. Clear cultures of poisitive, attractive successful football that persist despire managerial changes. The biggest signing that AVFC could make this season that would guarantee the biggest impact is not a new Manager or that elsuive star player to lead us to glory, its a Chief Exec that has a vision and knows the game. Fortunately for us such a man with a proven track record in the Premiere League is available. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Nicola Cortese. Randy, Randy sign him up. Edited April 7, 2014 by Eames 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 However I don't believe that PL has shown any ability as a coach or tactician. This season has been disappointing but **** me, we've beaten Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal. He got a shit club like Norwich promoted from League 1. So what do you get more points for beating them rather than Fulham? No! Didn't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 However I don't believe that PL has shown any ability as a coach or tactician. This season has been disappointing but **** me, we've beaten Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal. He got a shit club like Norwich promoted from League 1. So what do you get more points for beating them rather than Fulham? No! Didn't think so. I think the point being made was that you don't get the results we've got against the better teams in the league by being a crap tactician. The players carry more blame for the Fulham defeat than PL does IMO. Its not like he's sending them up the tunnel with the instructions "Remember lads, defend like you've only just been introduced." or (vs. Man Utd) "Its a fine of a weeks wages for every goal you score Christian" There is some recieved wisdom in football "By Championship players and that is where you will end up" - half our squad are just that, and that isn't solely Lambert's fault either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 So what do you get more points for beating them rather than Fulham? No! Didn't think so. I can't even begin to understand what kind of point you're making or what kind of point you think I'm making. You don't beat all three in one season with a squad you bought for £40m without "any ability as a coach or tactician". The number of points received for each league win are completely and utterly irrelevant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 So what do you get more points for beating them rather than Fulham? No! Didn't think so. I can't even begin to understand what kind of point you're making or what kind of point you think I'm making. You don't beat all three in one season with a squad you bought for £40m without "any ability as a coach or tactician". The number of points received for each league win are completely and utterly irrelevant. We obviously have we never outplayed any of those sides and we were just lucky they had off days and we had the rub of the green. Lambert's tactics beat Chelsea. Laughable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Not sure if serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Not sure if serious. Ask Mourhino if he thinks Lambert beat him on tactics? Unless Lambert's tactics were to pay off the ref then I think I can guess what the answer would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) Not sure if serious. Ask Mourhino if he thinks Lambert beat him on tactics? Unless Lambert's tactics were to pay off the ref then I think I can guess what the answer would be? I wasn't aware Mourinho was the arbiter of who did or did not "beat him on tactics [sic]". Edit - At the risk of repeating myself I feel like I should also highlight the fact you've again missed the point. Showing any ability as a coach or tactician ≠ Beating Mourinho "on tactics". Edited April 7, 2014 by ArteSuave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Take stoke and wimbledon of old, they played ugly football but it worked for them and to a degree it was a success. And they were well known for being hard and not many teams liked playing them especially at their place. We just have nothing at all, I'm all up for playing like the dons if it gets results. To be honest though both of those clubs I mentioned had pretty good teams in their prime. We are just a pushover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 What they had was a specific style of play....an ethos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 However I don't believe that PL has shown any ability as a coach or tactician. This season has been disappointing but **** me, we've beaten Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal. He got a shit club like Norwich promoted from League 1. I listened to an interesting interview with Martinez after Everton had beaten Arsenal. He said he was delighted with the approach of his players in the week leading up to the match. He said that his players were like sponges, absorbing all his words and instructions in training and then carrying them out to the letter during the match. That's what a good coach can do for a team. Lambert does not seem to have this sort of influence on our players in training, and that shows on match days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 And it worked really well. They also had good teams to go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 This for me is a really easy question. We have no ethos. No identity. (I'm discounting the horrible negative hoofball as an identity as I becuase I believe that to be the product of necessity not design) Lerner's biggest failing is not the chronic overspend followed by the chronic underspend, its his failure to embed a culture at the club that breeds success. Look at Southampton and Swansea. Clear cultures of poisitive, attractive successful football that persist despire managerial changes. The biggest signing that AVFC could make this season that would guarantee the biggest impact is not a new Manager or that elsuive star player to lead us to glory, its a Chief Exec that has a vision and knows the game. Fortunately for us such a man with a proven track record in the Premiere League is available. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Nicola Cortese. Randy, Randy sign him up. Good post, completely agree. Used to hate the idea of a director of football but it does seem to be what our club is crying out for as essentially everyone above Lambert has no real clue about the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 A new manager won't solve our problems. Changing a tire on a car won't help if the engine is ****. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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