RIP Tony Benn

[colhint]

well that's one opinion for sure

[villaajax]

Make that two as I share that opinion and no doubt so do many, many others.

[thetrees]

Or, in simple summary, Margaret Thatcher achieved the necessary power to follow her convictions and 'ruin people's lives'

Mr Benn was denied the opportunity to exact his policies and 'ruin people's lives' because he failed in his attempts to achieve high office.

[drat01]

and so the thread descends ...........

 

Surely its not a Benn vs Thatcher thread

[thetrees]

In fairness Ian, it is the 'holier than thou' Socialists who started it!

Mind you, as a more balanced Socialist I invite you to end it.

Just pushing back now, so I am gone for 9 hours at least....,,,,or maybe days longer;)

[Kingfisher]

Tony Blair 'achieved power', Adolf Hitler 'achieved power'. Tyrants achieve power, good people don't kill.

[drat01]

In fairness Ian, it is the 'holier than thou' Socialists who started it!

Mind you, as a more balanced Socialist I invite you to end it.

Just pushing back now, so I am gone for 9 hours at least....,,,,or maybe days longer;)

I'm balanced because I have a chip on both shoulders :-)  ........ I am sure someone would have said that :-)

 

On a more general point it's interesting that even people who have little affinity to Benn's political beliefs have commented about his style of political "behaviour". Surely this shows the public are crying out for a return to political figures who are more about serving the people they represent rather than themselves. The political world at all levels is full of bullies and ego-tistical Walter Mitty types across the whole political spectrum and that is why so many now in the general public despise them and what they stand for.

 

There is a massive void in the political world at the moment and it will be interesting if it is ever filled or is allowed to be filled. I despise comments re Milliband's apperance for example, what in the world does that have in terms of relevance. Osborne looks like a "window licker" someone put on Twitter recently, I just wanted to reply so what, that is not what makes him objectionable it's his behaviour and beliefs.

 

Ah well back to a week of watching the start of the run up to the SA elections, now that is a eye opener :-)

[Risso]

Bye Tony. How amusing to see the vile creatures like Rifkind, Cameron and Blair trying to frame some suitably nuanced, slightly respectful words which in no way reflect their hatred of and fear for the ideas you spent your life promoting. Pathetic oafs. Self-serving publicity, as usual. Their hypocritical kowtowing is a recognition of the power of ideas, nothing at all with respect for the dead.

 

Oh come off it.  It's exactly the same when anybody high profile dies, everybody has to think of something suitably respectful to say.  Check out Ed Milliband when Thatcher died for example.  You really didn't think that the PM would be asked about Benn dying?  And having been asked, that he was going to say "good riddance to the pathetic hypocritical socialist clearing in the woods"?  This is what Benn himself said about Thatcher when she died:  "Although I thought she was wrong, she said what she meant and meant what she said. It was not about style with her; it was substance – I don’t think she listened to spin doctors, she just had a clear idea and followed it through.  I remember her at the funeral of MP Eric Heffer. I was asked to make a speech and as I was waiting, there was someone behind me coughing. It was Mrs Thatcher, and at the end I thanked her for coming and she burst into tears. She had come out of respect for someone whose opinions she disagreed with.”

Edited March 15, 2014 by Risso

[snowychap]

This is what Benn himself said about Thatcher when she died:  "Although I thought she was wrong, she said what she meant and meant what she said. It was not about style with her; it was substance – I don’t think she listened to spin doctors, she just had a clear idea and followed it through.  I remember her at the funeral of MP Eric Heffer. I was asked to make a speech and as I was waiting, there was someone behind me coughing. It was Mrs Thatcher, and at the end I thanked her for coming and she burst into tears. She had come out of respect for someone whose opinions she disagreed with.”

It's also what Benn said about her before she died - at least in the last few years as he said that same thing in his one man show also going on to describe her as (something like) 'a political signpost rather than a weather-vane' (I think he meant the latter about Blair and others). Edited March 15, 2014 by snowychap

[colhint]

 

In fairness Ian, it is the 'holier than thou' Socialists who started it!

Mind you, as a more balanced Socialist I invite you to end it.

Just pushing back now, so I am gone for 9 hours at least....,,,,or maybe days longer;)

I'm balanced because I have a chip on both shoulders :-)  ........ I am sure someone would have said that :-)

 

On a more general point it's interesting that even people who have little affinity to Benn's political beliefs have commented about his style of political "behaviour". Surely this shows the public are crying out for a return to political figures who are more about serving the people they represent rather than themselves. The political world at all levels is full of bullies and ego-tistical Walter Mitty types across the whole political spectrum and that is why so many now in the general public despise them and what they stand for.

 

There is a massive void in the political world at the moment and it will be interesting if it is ever filled or is allowed to be filled. I despise comments re Milliband's apperance for example, what in the world does that have in terms of relevance. Osborne looks like a "window licker" someone put on Twitter recently, I just wanted to reply so what, that is not what makes him objectionable it's his behaviour and beliefs.

 

Ah well back to a week of watching the start of the run up to the SA elections, now that is a eye opener :-)

 

 

Not often I say this, but I completely agree with Drat

[MakemineVanilla]

 

 

 

May have been born into wealth but he cared about the right people unlike Cameron and Osbourne. A man of conviction and a true lefty. He will be sadly missed RIP

 

 

Says it all for me. Some cracking posts in this thread most of which show the man the high level of respect he so very much deserves. Those that don't say far more about the person posting than they do about Tony Benn.

 

RIP Tony. One of the last of a very rare breed of politicians.

 

 

 

That's a bit naughty considering the posts in the Margaret Thatcher thread

 

 

Your comparing chalk with cheese. Thatcher was an evil cow who ruined millions of people lives, destroyed communities and much like the Tories of today was very much for the few at the expense of the many. She warranted no respect. Plenty of people may not have agreed with some of Tony Benns views but no one could dispute that Benns intentions were good and he wanted a fairer society for all and a more equal distribution of wealth.

 

 

The question which really needs to be asked is whether without the likes of Benn splitting the Labour party, would we have got Thatcher?

 

The other question which all Labour supporters have to answer is whether history would have been substantially different, and would the right-wing backlash been forestalled had Barbara Castle's whitepaper 'In Place of Strife' not been rejected?

 

That rejection must stand as one of the most significant turning points in Labour history.

Edited March 15, 2014 by MakemineVanilla

[KennyPowers]

Impressive that a man from such a humble background (his father and both grandfathers MP's, educated at Eton and then PPE at Oxford) could have such a long career in politics. 

[villaajax]

Impressive that a man from such a humble background (his father and both grandfathers MP's, educated at Eton and then PPE at Oxford) could have such a long career in politics. 

 

Impressive that a man from a background such as that would care an fight for the causes that he did.

[dAVe80]

[villaajax]

 

Same could be said of the tory party in general.

[AVFCforever1991]

[chrisp65]

on saying nice or bland things about the dead

 

the only person yesterday that appeared to find it difficult to say anything good about him was Shirley Williams who came over as quite a conflicted character

 

She felt Benn had caused Labour to lose power and influence and had by division of the left conspired to let the tories in. Of itself, that's a fair argument. What she appeared oblivious to, having espoused how awful it was to let the tories in, she appeared to be forgetting she was currently part of a party that was currently actively in with the tories.

 

Sadly, later in the evening, on Newsnight she was still of the opinion letting the tories in was bad (clearly old school and not reading the texts from HQ), but now she was sat next to Diane Abbot. Least said about Abbot the better.

[villaajax]

on saying nice or bland things about the dead

 

the only person yesterday that appeared to find it difficult to say anything good about him was Shirley Williams who came over as quite a conflicted character

 

She felt Benn had caused Labour to lose power and influence and had by division of the left conspired to let the tories in. Of itself, that's a fair argument. What she appeared oblivious to, having espoused how awful it was to let the tories in, she appeared to be forgetting she was currently part of a party that was currently actively in with the tories.

 

Sadly, later in the evening, on Newsnight she was still of the opinion letting the tories in was bad (clearly old school and not reading the texts from HQ), but now she was sat next to Diane Abbot. Least said about Abbot the better.

 

Speaking as a Labour supporter, I've never liked Abbott.

Edited March 15, 2014 by villaajax

[terrytini]

I couldn't stand Thatcher but at least she was in a Party which was the right place for her views.

The ones who make me sick are Kinnock, Healey, Williams, Roy Jenkins and the rest who try - in the most incredible revisionist history - to say Benn lost Labour power.

In what was allegedly the dreadfully left wing manifesto Election of 1983 Labour still polled over 8 million votes - not much different than 'New Labours' last effort incidentally - - despite having the appalling public persona of Foot as Leader, despite the entire Tory Press raged against them, despite Thatcher having come off the back of a War, despite the Right Wingers Owen, Williams, Jenkins and Rodgers splitting the vote by forming the SDP, and despite Labours own people deriding some of the policies, and despite peoples memory of 1979 and the appalling last 12 months of the Callaghan governement.

How on earth do they then blame Benn for the defeat !!!

Imagine they had stuck to the socialist principles he espoused. It could have been a disaster. Or...........

They could have won that election, or at least the next - the Revenues from North Sea Oil could have been invested instead of squandered on 3000000 unemployed, our break from the EC could have allowed massive state intervention in industry....the spending saved on nuclear missiles would have been similarly invested...and our status as a world Nation enhanced by the example we set...we could have played a far bigger role as peace broker in world affairs, rather than be a firestarter, .peoples homes would not be regarded as as investment opportunity, and our entire society be more like the scandinavian models rather than the greed infested Murdoch dominated right wing society we now have.

And the Tories would have either had to adopt much of it or remain out of power.

So it really isn't Thatcher I despise, it is those who should have joined her rather than turn the LABOUR party into Tory clones.

NONE mor ethan Shirley Williams who should hang her head in shame after the other night (and the last 40 years)

Edited March 15, 2014 by terrytini

[chrisp65]

speaking as somebody that would consider themselves a little bit too left for labour, she gets away with some pretty shallow clunking offensive stuff