Ulver Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Q. Is there another club in the Premier League right now that has a lower wage bill to turnover ratio than ours ? (well apart from the mega rich ones with unbelievable income revenues of course) I think our last published turnover income was 75/80m, this will now be boosted by a further 20m ish from the new Sky deal (i believe) and some hopeful improvements that the club will have made on the commercial side to earn their salaries. So lets say it'll be near 100m next time around. As we all know, our current 25 man squad wage bill must be tiny these days, especially given that our ITK man claims a lot of Lambert's signings are earning between 5-15k a week. Lets estimate the current squad wages, i've also included our players that are out on loan Guzan 30k Steer 5k Given 25k (not sure what percentage of his wage we're paying so i'm guessing 25k is half) Donacien 1k Hutton 30k Baker 10k Clark 15k Bennett 15k Vlaar 25k Okore 20k Luna 15k Lowton 15k Stevens 5k N'Zogbia 40k Bacuna 15k El Ahmadi 15k Albrighton 15k Westwood 15k Delph 30k Herd 5k Sylla 10k Gardner 5k Tonev 10k Carruthers 2k Johnson 2k Ireland 30k (not sure what percentage of his wage we're paying so i'm guessing 30k is half) Benteke 30k Agbonlahor 50k Weimann 25k Kozak 20k Bowery 2k Delfouneso 5k (not idea what Blackpool are contributing) Burke 1k Helenius 10K Bent 30k (not sure what percentage of his wage we're paying so i'm guessing 30k is half) So that's around 578,000 per week, or around 30 million a year. obviously that's all based on guess work but even so it can't be that far off. In summation, i think we can finally put this 'we need to get our wage bill in order' bollocks as an excuse for not spending to bed once and for all. UTV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 The wage bill is no longer an issue. We should be able to increase wages. What it should also mean is that when those big earners have gone their wages should be able to go to new players. We'll see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 Not to mention we've been told since Randy came that 'TRANSFER FEES AREN'T A PROBLEM, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE WAGES' Time to see if that's utter bollocks as expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 The issue has always been non-producing large earners on long term contracts, which have been sizeable long term liabilities for the club. For example, the Milner deal, which some have suggested that Randy Lerner 'pocketed the profit' The deal was £18m plus Stephen Ireland, valued at £8m. I have no idea of agents fees or signing on fees, but Ireland is reputed to be on £63000 per week - let's say that includes signing on fees. On that basis, over the 4 years of his contract with the club he will have grossed £13104000. In addition the club will pay in the region of £1.6m employers NI. So if you round it up to £15m and accept that you are not going to get anything in terms of a fee for Ireland, the gross return on the Milner deal was around £3m - for a young player who cost £12m! Okay, Ireland is the radical example, but if you look at Sidwell, Beye, Heskey, Dunne etc, there were plenty of these. I suppose that the next big example will be Darren Bent (the biggest?!) The apparent vision for the club is to get to the stage where the 'young and hungry' are established and improving and earning decent premier league money, which is probably a first team squad average of around £40k per week. With decent squad management this should be sustainable for the future. As you state BJ10, perhaps we are not that far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 The financial mess has been caused by giving players like Heskey, Beye, Given and Ireland ridiculous contracts, and I can understand the need to sort this out. However, taking a huge swinging axe to things isn't the way to go about it either, because we've lost a good deal of income from relegation battles two years running, and if we do get relegated, then all of the savings will be undone at a stroke by the cost of going down. Also, the current approach ignores the fact that the one player we'd get good money for if we sold him would be Benteke, who un-coincidentally cost the most money. I honestly think we'd struggle to get our money back on all of Lambert's other signings, because quite frankly they've all been shite, and so in their own lesser way, are still part of the problem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Like you say Risso we're losing out on potential money by consistently finishing lower down the table. Those that continue to defend Lerner want the club to be self sufficient but seem to ignore the damage Lerner has done and is doing to this approach. How competitive can we be while we allow teams to overtake us and get a bigger slice of the premiership revenue? Lerner is causing serious damage to this club IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lp_villa830 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Q. Is there another club in the Premier League right now that has a lower wage bill to turnover ratio than ours ? (well apart from the mega rich ones with unbelievable income revenues of course) I think our last published turnover income was 75/80m, this will now be boosted by a further 20m ish from the new Sky deal (i believe) and some hopeful improvements that the club will have made on the commercial side to earn their salaries. So lets say it'll be near 100m next time around. As we all know, our current 25 man squad wage bill must be tiny these days, especially given that our ITK man claims a lot of Lambert's signings are earning between 5-15k a week. Lets estimate the current squad wages, i've also included our players that are out on loan Guzan 30k Steer 5k Given 25k (not sure what percentage of his wage we're paying so i'm guessing 25k is half) Donacien 1k Hutton 30k Baker 10k Clark 15k Bennett 15k Vlaar 25k Okore 20k Luna 15k Lowton 15k Stevens 5k N'Zogbia 40k Bacuna 15k El Ahmadi 15k Albrighton 15k Westwood 15k Delph 30k Herd 5k Sylla 10k Gardner 5k Tonev 10k Carruthers 2k Johnson 2k Ireland 30k (not sure what percentage of his wage we're paying so i'm guessing 30k is half) Benteke 30k Agbonlahor 50k Weimann 25k Kozak 20k Bowery 2k Delfouneso 5k (not idea what Blackpool are contributing) Burke 1k Helenius 10K Bent 30k (not sure what percentage of his wage we're paying so i'm guessing 30k is half) So that's around 578,000 per week, or around 30 million a year. obviously that's all based on guess work but even so it can't be that far off. In summation, i think we can finally put this 'we need to get our wage bill in order' bollocks as an excuse for not spending to bed once and for all. UTV You also have to take NI contributions and bonuses into account. Would backroom staff costs be included as well? But as others have said the books are apparently in order now, so it is just a case of them not going above whatever level PF/RL have dreamed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosenthal Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Definitely think that Villa finances are going in the right direction, with wages lowered and players moved on. Coming financial records will be interesting. It's often wages that are mentioned as the financial problem at Villa, but another issue that I think have been hampering the club in recent years is that transfers tend to be paid over the length of the player contract. This mean that transfers as long as 5 years back in time is still being paid for. The club is still weighted by the transfer activities done 2 years back into O'Neill's tenure, plus the Bent signing etc. There'll be brighter days ahead. Old fun will soon be paid down, leaving an opportunity to raise the ambition level again. If I'm not mistaken Aston Villa is around 7th-9th in Premier League financial size, although there's a big step up to no.6 and you have to consider clubs that are backed by owners like Southampton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Biro Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 When he gets rid of zog, ireland, bent and hutton it will be even lower aswell. I dont think our wage bill is an issue anymore because we've cut an unbelievable amount of it and if it is indeed 30m a year now i think thats a 3rd of what it was as im pretty sure it was at around 90m at one point. Dot forget all the new double money deals given out in the summer too so it would have been even lower last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_ Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/apr/18/premier-league-finances-club-by-club According to this article, our wage bill last season was 70m.....can't remember who we got rid of in the summer but I still think it's probably 60m. 7th Highest in the league. Turnover 80m (Dropped from 92m the year before!!) which is 9th Highest in league. One "positive" is that we made an 18m loss last year according to this, year before was a 54m loss so that's a huge improvement and means should make a profit this season. Also another "guess" at the players wages, going by this article: http://www.tsmplug.com/football/aston-villa-players-salaries/ Given (2016) = 50k Hutton (2015) = 30k N'Zogbia (2016) = 65k Ireland (2014) = 70k Bent (2015) = 65k Total = 14.5m per year As for the "useful" ones: Agbonlahor (2015) = 45k Weimann (2015) = 15k Benteke (2017) = 60k I think Weimann's signed a new deal since that article though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I'm sure that info is for the McLeish year not last year. So we really should be in a decent financial position now. No more excuses for lerner to hide behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted December 30, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2013 The wage bill is no longer an issue. We should be able to increase wages. Wait? Didn't PF say that the books are balanced? Doesn't that mean if we do now increase wages that we'll need to make cutbacks again? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_ Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 You are correct.... double checked and the first link is 11/12 season. The second link is this season though. Maybe he is trying to make that 70+ million debt back and planning on selling up with this "5 year plan" half way through or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 The wage bill is no longer an issue. We should be able to increase wages. Wait? Didn't PF say that the books are balanced? Doesn't that mean if we do now increase wages that we'll need to make cutbacks again? The books are balanced and that's with paying some big wages still. If the books are balanced while given, bent, Hutton, Ireland and nzogbia are still on the books surely we should be able to use their wages when they leave. What will the excuse be come the summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 You are correct.... double checked and the first link is 11/12 season. The second link is this season though. Maybe he is trying to make that 70+ million debt back and planning on selling up with this "5 year plan" half way through or whatever. Not sure about that link. It has benteke on more than gabby which HH said is not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Biro Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Benteke 60k a week what utter rubbish. He's on half that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 At the end of the day the best players command the biggest wages. The only clubs who should be paying more than us are MUFC, MCFC, CFC, AFC, THFC and LFC. We should be paying the same as EFC and NUFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post srsmithusa Posted December 30, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted December 30, 2013 My grandfather, from the hills of eastern kentucky, used to say that if you need to cut the tail off a dog, it's easier to do it one whack rather than trying to cut off an inch each day until it's gone. Sometimes folk wisdom is the best. But for another example. Most chemotherapy for cancer doesn't aim to kill the cancer slowly over years. The goal is to kill it as fast as you can without killing the person. Seems to me we did that, just. I will admit that i feared we had cut too deep last year. But we stayed up, so Lambert was brilliant in my books. Finally, we act like it would be so much better to have had Bent, Ireland, Bannan, Hutton, Given, I have somehow forgotten how wonderfully they played consistent, shining, passing games and what brilliant results their mature, level heads brought to the team. Actually, i remember thinking they were lazy %+#+}'s who showed up when they felt like it and made errors without remorse. Frankly, i think if you are remembering otherwise your rosy nostalgic glasses are fooling you. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Not to mention we've been told since Randy came that 'TRANSFER FEES AREN'T A PROBLEM, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE WAGES' Time to see if that's utter bollocks as expected. That's a cop out if you ask me. Both go hand in hand and are not mutually exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Benteke isn't earning that much. The highest earner actually In the squad being used is Fabian Delph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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