CrackpotForeigner Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 His sins were pretty minor really. Very much more freedom fighter than terrorist. Best thing the apartheid era courts ever did was not hang him, which was very much on the cards during the Rivonia treason trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meath_Villan Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 This thread should get interesting later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phumfeinz Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 R.I.P. He was an icon and handled post-apartheid South Africa very well. At least he's not suffering anymore. It's just a shame some are bringing political agendas into this thread. Who? Nelson Mandela. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 Is this where I pretend to care and call him a hero etc etc? Or do I just say RIP Mandela on Facebook so everyone can see how worldly and great I am. Oh come on, no need for this. Not the time or place Phumfeinz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phumfeinz Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 What? I'm not disrespecting the man at all. I'm expressing distaste at the scores of people who will undoubtedly come out and say how great and wonderful he was when they don't know a damn thing about him just so they look good. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Biro Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Definitely with Phum on that, the mans an icon and all that but the tweets and stuff can be a bit cringey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 6, 2013 Moderator Share Posted December 6, 2013 His sins were pretty minor really. Very much more freedom fighter than terrorist. I think we all have a bit of reading to do! He did a lot of good and will be remembered for that, but let's not rewrite history. His sins were not minor. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponky Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 O'Bama Irish much? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 sad news, great man love his line " I'm not a saint, I'm a sinner, that just keeps trying" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 6, 2013 Moderator Share Posted December 6, 2013 O'Bama Irish much? Not much, just a little 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Rest in Peace Nelson. You will be missed x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLN Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I suspect that hundreds of years from now, people will still know the name Nelson Mandela, and what he struggled for. In 20 years' time, when I'm looking in my prayer book, I'll probably still be thinking about Father Ted Curley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 His sins were pretty minor really. Very much more freedom fighter than terrorist. I think we all have a bit of reading to do! He did a lot of good and will be remembered for that, but let's not rewrite history. His sins were not minor. If you're so sure, why not point us in the direction of this reading that we have to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mig4villa Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 His sins were pretty minor really. Very much more freedom fighter than terrorist. I think we all have a bit of reading to do! He did a lot of good and will be remembered for that, but let's not rewrite history. His sins were not minor. If you're so sure, why not point us in the direction of this reading that we have to do? Mandela was convicted of sabotage, and always denounced terrorism against individuals, despite the horrendous violence of the Apartheid state. He only turned to this tactic in desperation after Police massacred 69 unarmed demonstrators in 1960.He attempted (unsuccessfully) to blow up a couple of pylons if my memory serves me correctly - it's many years since i read 'the long road to freedom'. I think now would be a good time for a re-read. I remember it had a massive impact on me as a young man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post drat01 Posted December 6, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted December 6, 2013 I actually feel sorry for some who's real views seep out at times like this. If ever you get the chance go to South Africa, speak to people who lived through apartheid, go to the museums and try and understand the regime of that time. Look at the changes that have been made in the country since the disbandment of the most disgusting oppressive philosophy. Maybe read a few articles on the impact this man had with his views and way he progressed the fight against what is the most abhorrent system. Try and understand his words and the message. Those who are calling him a terrorist are ignorant. Ignorant of the man, ignorant of the circumstances, ignorant of the changes that have occurred and continue to occur because of him and his fellow fighters against apartheid 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatAboutTheFinish Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I'm sorry Drat but to label people as 'ignorant' whilst gushing one-eyed eulogies about how Mandela turned South Africa into some kind of modern day utopia is laughable. No-one can argue that he was a great statesman (maybe the best advert for the prison system there has ever been! ) but many of the changes that have occurred in South Africa have NOT been positive. Clearly you were living in a different part of SA to me, but if you can find any South African, race issues aside, who can say that any area of government/government services including administration, finance, corruption, healthcare, education, policing, security, infrastructure etc have significantly improved over the last 20 years then I would love to hear their arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I'm sorry Drat but to label people as 'ignorant' whilst gushing one-eyed eulogies about how Mandela turned South Africa into some kind of modern day utopia is laughable. No-one can argue that he was a great statesman (maybe the best advert for the prison system there has ever been! ) but many of the changes that have occurred in South Africa have NOT been positive. Clearly you were living in a different part of SA to me, but if you can find any South African, race issues aside, who can say that any area of government/government services including administration, finance, corruption, healthcare, education, policing, security, infrastructure etc have significantly improved over the last 20 years then I would love to hear their arguments. glad to see you have not read my post correctly because it gives me a chance to answer the points you have raised. While you may think the ignorance is laughable the reality is that you will see a lot of people still labelling Mandella etc as terrorists. I am assuming you fall into that group? I would be interested to hear your experiences of the SA regime and contacts with people who lived through apartheid. I have many many friends who did so and respect their real life experiences and recollections. Likewise I have taken a fair amount of time to visit and see for myself a lot of the evidence of the times. Again it would be good to see why you find these laughable and 'one eyed eulogies'. As for SA at this time, sorry but i find your comments amazing and to use that word you favour laughable if you feel that progress has not been made. No one, even Mandella has said things are perfect,there are -as in many many countries - so much work to do. To say that things have not improved in the areas you talk about, I suspect that your views are based more on those of a minority rather than the majority. Again it would be good to hear why you think things have not improved. Mandella was and still is a leader, a icon, someone who's views and actions have improved the life of so many around the world. That is not a 'gushing one-eyed eulogy" as you rudely put it,it's a view that I and many many people hold based on reality, facts and looking at the whole picture and becoming educated on what the man was about and what drove his beliefs . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I'm sorry Drat but to label people as 'ignorant' whilst gushing one-eyed eulogies about how Mandela turned South Africa into some kind of modern day utopia is laughable. No-one can argue that he was a great statesman (maybe the best advert for the prison system there has ever been! ) but many of the changes that have occurred in South Africa have NOT been positive. Clearly you were living in a different part of SA to me, but if you can find any South African, race issues aside, who can say that any area of government/government services including administration, finance, corruption, healthcare, education, policing, security, infrastructure etc have significantly improved over the last 20 years then I would love to hear their arguments. bring back the good old days 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I'm sorry Drat but to label people as 'ignorant' whilst gushing one-eyed eulogies about how Mandela turned South Africa into some kind of modern day utopia is laughable. No-one can argue that he was a great statesman (maybe the best advert for the prison system there has ever been! ) but many of the changes that have occurred in South Africa have NOT been positive. Clearly you were living in a different part of SA to me, but if you can find any South African, race issues aside, who can say that any area of government/government services including administration, finance, corruption, healthcare, education, policing, security, infrastructure etc have significantly improved over the last 20 years then I would love to hear their arguments. I suppose it depends what's important to you. For me, it doesn't matter much how good my healthcare, infrastructure etc. are if the people are at each others' throats. The fact that they aren't is thanks to Mandela. You're right to suggest that the ANC have got progressively less competent as a government, but very few people in SA that I know would want to go back to apartheid days, and nobody whatsoever would fancy a transition away from apartheid without Mandela. So RIP Madiba. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Can't be real. Why am I feeling that there was something a bit dark about Mandela? Did a propaganda machine affect me as a child? Must go and research more. He did some horrible stuff in the beginning but what happens after is what makes him the man everyone looks up to. Agree completely, when people say he was wedded to non-violence I wonder if they are confusing him with Ghandi? Undoubtedly a huge loss to SA and hopefully his successors in the ANC can up their own game by moving away from the state kleptocracy with which they replaced white apartheid. RIP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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