Just Have a Little Patience

[Trinity-Tom]

He is comfortable on the ball and his timing of runs, tackles etc... is getting better. Previously, he wouldn't get close to the ball and when he had the ball his biggest problem was that he sometimes would get caught in possession. This all says to me that he is off the pace but that he starting to adjust to it. It has taken longer than I would have hoped but if he solves these small issues I think he will be a real player.

[OldFart]

I think there's a danger that people have made their minds up on Petrov and they now watch him already convinced that he wont do well, and then convince themselves of it. He is improving and has played well last 2 times out.

I think there's a danger that people have made their minds up on Petrov and they now watch him already convinced that he will do well, and then convince themselves of it. He may be improving, I think you're right, but has he really played that well last 2 times out?

[BOF]

I think considering the opposition yes he has. He was arguably more of a captain's influence than Barry in the Liverpool game and if justice was done he would have won us the game (or at least put us into the lead at the time). I haven't made my mind up either way on him but I can see improvement and more often than not all I end up doing on here is being a devil's advocate against people who seemingly have made their minds up about him.

[avfcinwales]

I think there's a danger that people have made their minds up on Petrov and they now watch him already convinced that he wont do well, and then convince themselves of it. He is improving and has played well last 2 times out.

I think there's a danger that people see him as O'Neill's first signing and can't or won't see how poor he has been and is, even during the last two games.

No matter what he does, how bad he is, they can't see it and make excuses, their minds are made up, any O'Neill signing has to be perfect even when he isn't

[BOF]

Come on Malcolm, nobody has said he is perfect. Everyone has said he has been a disappointment so how can you say people can't or wont see how poor he is.

He is now at a stage where he could go either way. I just hope people either way will be big enough to admit they were wrong if it turns out he wasn't what they expected - whether that be that he succeeds or that he fails.

[OutByEaster?]

I think there's a danger that people see him as O'Neill's first signing and can't or won't see how poor he has been and is, even during the last two games.

No matter what he does, how bad he is, they can't see it and make excuses, their minds are made up, any O'Neill signing has to be perfect even when he isn't

To be fair Malc, the only person who seems to watch players and judge them on who signed them is you.

On the field I think Petrov is judged on performances and performances alone, and they've not been great. I think we've seen a small improvement lately, but I think it's fair to say that most people want a little bit more than that from a player whose position dictates that he should be at the heart of everything we do.

Time will tell if he can get there.

[Guest VillaFan1]

Don't worry I'm not going to start singing Take That songs, but I have noticed a few fans getting restless about our current situation so I thought I'd throw my two cents into the mix.

OK, so we are currently only 7 points ahead of the drop zone, we have only won 2 in 18 and seem once again to be the Premiership draw specialists. But what did everyone expect? We started the season well with a great unbeaten run. 10 games into the season and fans were talking about Europe. WE got carried away (myself included) and with a new owner and a seemingly unbeatable team things were looking good.

So what went wrong? Well personally I think that Luke Moore's injury forced us to change our tactics and after losing our first game with these new tactics the heads dropped. We turned into a battling team rather than a team playing good football. We capitalised on mistakes to beat Blackburn and got lucky to beat Everton, but then we were exposed. Some hard fought draws and an embarrassing but predictable defeat at the hands of Man City seemed to really knock the wind out of our sails. And with the same squad as last year (plus Petrov and Sutton...and Agathe) we had the same troubles as last year. Dodgy defending, inability to finish and not enough possession still haunt us.

The thing is, no matter who is in charge, players will not perform miracles. If players are low on confidence then their performance will drop. MON is a great motivator but even he seems to be struggling with the stale aftertaste left here in recent times. Optimism may be on the up but when players have been low on confidence for the last two years it won't be built back up in months.

Building a squad is a similar thing. Sure we have Young, we have Carew, we have Maloney and we have Petrov but before this season none of these players had any Premiership experience. They have been thrown n at the deep end and have coped with varying levels of success. Carew seems to demolish anything in front of him whilst Petrov and Young have taken a little longer to adapt. Moving to a new league is not easy, but then again neither is moving to a new country. Three of those 4 new guys have come from different cultures and are learning to adapt to a new lifestyle. As for Young, well think about this. He is a young lad (no pun intended....ah hell it was a good one though) and has spent his entire career to date at Watford. Now Watford is a small club where he was put on something of a pedestal - big fish in a small pond springs to mind. Now he has come to a much bigger club with a much bigger ground and fan base. Now he is a small fish in a big pond and must learn to adapt.

The truth is though none of us know why it went wrong. We can all speculate and that's what we are doing, but it's all academic really. I hate to say we are too good to go down and I won't say it. But what I will say is that we will pick up the remaining 6 points to survive which was the target for this season. And I will go on to also say that there are teams below us not good enough to stay up. So I wouldn't be too concerned about relegation.

What I'm getting at here is that the current slump is nobodies fault. Sure maybe Young should be played on the wing and Agbonlahor up front. Maybe improvement on the field is very slow and the new guys haven't settled in as quickly as we would all have hoped, but things are looking up. We have a whole summer to build. We will have a new training facility which will help our team, new players obviously which will boost the quality. Our 4 new boys will have had more time to settle into life here and dare I use the old DOL adage but our new look Villa will have had a full pre-season together which will bring them that much closer to "gelling". So let's not be too hasty to judge, this time next year will be a good time to sit back and take stock.

Great post matey some very good facts brought into the light

I know its nobodys fault and i,d never start saying oh its that persons fault or start finger pointing.

But to be honest their is 1 person i blame for villas current situation and thats Doug Ellis.

Were in a damn sure better situation financially than we were last year and the years before that.

Their,s one thing ive questioned with O Neil this season and thats his formation choice and player choice.

Davis given his due has been out of form compared to previous seasons and i dont understand why Young keeps being played upfront when i think he,s a natural winger.

Another thing i dont understand is Agbonlahor has been out of sorts in the recent weeks yet he keeps getting played.

Surely Luke given his reserves form must be thinkin what does it take to get in the villa side.

Moore in my eyes and also a lot of other villa fans is liked and has proven that he can score goals as thats one thing our side is lacking.

Another thing is our formation at the moment before moore got injured we were playing a 4 - 3 - 3 formation.

Which was working a treat before Luke got injured then we reverted back to a 4 - 4 - 2 and since then its seen us stoop dangerously towards the drop.

Surely it comes to one point where you have to bring a goal scorer like luke back into the squad maybe put Carew and Moore upfront with Ashley and Gabby as wingers.

Our current form is alarmingly bad and something needs to be done asap i wont judge o neil on our current season or situation nor even next season.

But the season after i certainly well and if were still in the same situation in a few years to come then we know something isnt right!

Regards VillaFan1

[TRO]

..... does it really take that long..... to win trophies probably yes........ to see measurable improvement in a players performance imo... no

massive quote snipped, as it's in the post directly above. blandy

[Kay-Ole]

On the topic, I have to say I abselutely agree! I'm reading a lot on this forum, and I'm baffled every time I see someone saying they are losing patience with MON. It's just unbelieveble. He has been here almost one season, had a fantastic start, then things didn't go so good. He has had three new players come in mid-season, and some already attack Young; a 21 year old striker who has been playing more on the left side. Carew has been fantastic, and I'm sure things will be getting better the next season. No matter how this season ends, MON has to have a lot more time before anyone can start saying he's a failure.

On Stan Petrov. Same thing with him. He had a good start, and has played large parts of the season with an injury. He might not have played as good as many expected, but he has changed league and contry, and many players have needed a season to adjust to the Prem, and the excelled. If people won't give both MON and Petrov another season, before starting the judgement, I don't understand how they are thinking.

[avfcinwales]

Come on Malcolm, nobody has said he is perfect. Everyone has said he has been a disappointment so how can you say people can't or wont see how poor he is.

He is now at a stage where he could go either way. I just hope people either way will be big enough to admit they were wrong if it turns out he wasn't what they expected - whether that be that he succeeds or that he fails.

True few have said he is perfect, some have said in the Liverpool game he had a bigger influence than Barry though, which is amazing considering the stats, the pundits and O'Neill's own comments, but then as Old Fart and I said, it seems some just have preconceived views and do their best to justify them

As to OBE comments, I might point out I have often said, as after the West Ham match how good Petrov can be, I have also praised Carew extensively, I really rate Maloney, loved the way Sutton played when he got fit and think Young is a decent prospect especially if played in his right full position, even though his price paid was lunacy.

I might be edging my bets again but I don't think that justifies such a comment as this

To be fair Malc, the only person who seems to watch players and judge them on who signed them is you.

Maybe it does, Agathe apart, I think all of O'Neill's signings are half decent or better and have offered an improvement in squad quality

I still think Petrov's form though hasn't justified his continual presence in the side and I'm a little upset that Young is being totally wasted by O'Neill at the moment and deserves much better treatment.

[BOF]

True few have said he is perfect, some have said in the Liverpool game he had a bigger influence than Barry though, which is amazing considering the stats, the pundits and O'Neill's own comments, but then as Old Fart and I said, it seems some just have preconceived views and do their best to justify them

Well you certainly pay attention to what I write. I have pre-conceived ideas about Barry being the best player we have. So why would I then go and make some off the cuff remark that seemingly belittles him? I wouldn't.

Some people also called me mad for suggesting McCann was MOTM against Liverpool yet the stats show he completed more tackles than anyone else in the game. That surely, considering the score and the type of match that it was, would go some way to justifying my opinion ? I'm obvously not completely biased and mad then, no matter how some would twist it to seem that way.

Petrov up to this point has been disappointing. He is improving. His manager has said as much only the other day. You either value the manager's opinion as you do above when you say which is amazing considering ... O'Neill's own comments or you don't value them in his assertion that Petrov has been poor and is improving. Me? I think you throw the manager's comments at people when it suits to do so, and you call his comments 'excuses excuses excuses' when it suits you to do so. I think you've made your mind up about a lot of things at Villa, and I think it's sad that on the face of it you seem incapable of enjoying anything about the club anymore. Just as a matter of curiosity, when was the last time you wrote a positive article for the front page ?

[avfcinwales]

I don't know or care about your paranoia BOF so I will discount the first 2 sentences, I didn't suggest any of that but it matters little.

I'm also of the opinion that things are not necessarily black and white all the time. Sometimes I agree with O'Neill's opinions, sometimes I don't and when I don't I often give a reason why. In this instance I thought his views were inaccurate and just excuses, lame ones at that

Now that doesn't mean I always see his opinions as never changing as you seem to be suggesting. I admit guilt that I use O'Neills comments to illustrate a point sad are't I

As to posting a positive article on the front page I don't see the relevance unless its an extension of the better fans syndrome many use when their ability to offer coherent thought dies.

In days past like about this time last season I spent time trying to find plenty of positive articles and usually you were at the head of the queue to denigrate them, perhaps I have learnt a lesson, or perhaps as some have said its just me veing idle and using the easier option of criticising rather than praising.

It could of course simply be that I am acting as a foil to those who post inane positive posts all the time without in my view much justification.

Who knows, perhaps I don't see much to be positive about, or a need to continually reiterate that the fans have to be patient and give O'Neill time

Perhaps I'm doing it just to piss you off

[dont_do_it_doug.]

As to posting a positive article on the front page I don't see the relevance unless its an extension of the better fans syndrome many use when their ability to offer coherent thought dies.

Or could it just be that it's an opinion that differs from yours? You don't have free reign of the front page you know, last time I checked you're not the editor.

It could of course simply be that I am acting as a foil to those who post inane positive posts all the time without in my view much justification.

Oh woe is me. Get a grip Malcolm, you're not that important.

Who knows, perhaps I don't see much to be positive about, or a need to continually reiterate that the fans have to be patient and give O'Neill time

Instead you constantly gripe and bitch and moan about every little detail. On one hand you say you agree with some of the managers decisions, yet we never see that. Is it so hard to accept that others can see the positives? Is it so hard to accept that you might be wrong?

[BOF]

Perhaps I'm doing it just to piss you off

No Malcolm I know you're not doing that, but I do think that sometimes you revel in being the lone voice and it can sometimes look like being negative for negative's sake. That's all. The reason I ask about the positive articles is simply because I can't believe that you don't see anything positive around the place and wonder why you only choose to do the negative, that's all.

And I don't head the queue to pick on you. I do tend to respond to everyone on here and if your articles bring a response out of me, be it critical or supportive then surely that's what you would prefer .. a response, rather than not.

[Jon]

edit by jc - every word of that is post on poster, not post

[JohnCresswell]

In fact, **** it.

Another thread ruined.

Sorry to the author of the thread.