Platini wants 'sin bin' instead of yellow cards

[BOF]

Firstly, here's the article, followed by why I think it's currently a bad idea.

 

Michel Platini: Uefa chief wants sin-bin over yellow cards

European football chief Michel Platini has called for yellow cards to be replaced by a sin-bin.

Continue reading the main story

"I would make it like rugby, punishing the offender with 10 or 15 minutes out of the game," he said in an interview with Spanish sports daily newspaper AS.

"It is an idea. Now it needs to mature and see if it really is good for the game. It is a proposal to be explored."

Uefa president Platini also backed the idea of allowing national cup champions to take part in the Champions League.

Under the existing in-game disciplinary system a player who is shown a straight red card or two yellow cards in the same game is immediately sent off and cannot be replaced.

However, if a player picks up a certain number of yellow cards spread over several matches they will be suspended for future games, and it is this aspect that most concerns Platini.

Who makes football's laws?

The International Football Association Board has representatives from Fifa and the four UK football associations - the FA, SFA, FAW and IFA

He believes a sin-bin would be a fairer punishment because "that way, the benefit goes to the team he is playing against, in the same match, instead of a sanction by cards which is carried out against a third team, the next on the calendar".

The former France captain, who won 76 international caps between 1976-87 and has run Uefa since 2007, also believes goalkeepers who concede a penalty should not be sent off.

"It seems excessive," he said. "The penalty is itself already is punishment enough.

"I think it's something that everyone in Fifa and Uefa agree, but one or two of the countries that make up the International Board are unwilling to change."

Regarding the subject of Champions League qualification, which is currently restricted to where teams finish in their domestic leagues, Platini backed plans to also include winners of domestic cup competitions.

"I agree with this proposal, which we have debated many times," he said. "But when it comes time to vote, countries that don't want to cede a place for the cup champion are in the majority."

My initial reaction to the idea is 'Yeah that seems like it could work'. But then you think about it. Yellow cards are dished out too frequently in the modern game and losing a player for 10-15 mins is a very harsh punishment for what might be something as innocuous as an over-exuberant goal celebration.

His comparison to rugby also ignores the mathematical fact that there are 15 players in a rugby side, so losing 1 from 15 is that bit less damaging than losing 1 from 11. But that's beside the main point that yellows in football are far more common than sin bins in rugby.

I might be in favour of a sin bin if they brought it in for 'orange' fouls. By which I mean the more serious category of yellow that falls short of a red. You'd probably have to specify the category of foul that is included in that or risk having another subjective nightmare like we currently have with 'interfering with play' or 'intentional handball in the box' which both seem to be woefully inconsistent and largely on the whim of the ref.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

It's just another step toward making football a non-contact sport.

[CardiffGreens]

The only time I thought that a sin bin would be appropriate would be for those fouls usually described as "taking a yellow for the team" - usually for sycthing down an opponent on the halfway line as they're about to break on a counter attack.

Like BOF says, it'd need to be another level of offence, rather than simply binning anyone who gets a yellow - that would be messy.

[djamfisher]

Good comment BOF.

 

Another example of peopel in footy having no idea. They take what could be a good idea in theory and f*** it up. Sin bins instead of yellows is stupid, sin bins for 'orange fouls' (as you put it) could be woth while.

 

 

I think sometimes people like this plonker take ideas that people have thought of, and instead of testing them out properly f*** them up, and say to people look it don't work.

 

just like the extra officials they use in Europe. Firstly they are on the wrong side, monitoring the byline on the same side as the linesman almost makes them redudant, they should be on the other side, and secondly they don't do anything. Once enough people shout about how the extra officials aren't adding any value FIFA/UEFa will come out and say the test showed they don't work so we wont use them. Ignoring the fact they are implementing it wrongly.

[The_Rev]

Yeah, the number of yellow card offenses needs to get reduced in order for this to work.   People always pull out the stat that Gary Lineker went through his entire career (1978-1994) without getting booked, but it was much more difficult to get booked back then. A sin bin for taking your shirt off after scoring would be bollocks. 

[Stevo985]

 

just like the extra officials they use in Europe. Firstly they are on the wrong side, monitoring the byline on the same side as the linesman almost makes them redudant, they should be on the other side, and secondly they don't do anything. Once enough people shout about how the extra officials aren't adding any value FIFA/UEFa will come out and say the test showed they don't work so we wont use them. Ignoring the fact they are implementing it wrongly.

It's a myth that those officials don't do anything.

 

They do plenty. Just because they're not blowing whistles or waving flags doesn't mean they're not doing anything.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Stevo985

[Zatman]

I think a sin bin could work if was used for certain laws in the game.

 

Cynical tackles would be one

diving could be another,

maybe also players handballing on the line while also giving the penalty 

when the goalkeeper is last man and makes a foul

[BOF]

Yeah, other than diving which can be hard to correctly assess at the time, the others are the kind of thing I'd regard as 'orange' fouls

[Zatman]

yeah agree about the diving as hard to imagine but one crackdown on a player would stop other players even trying to dive as their team mates will be pissed playing 10 vs 11 for a period of game

[coda]

The CL qualification for domestic cup winners is interesting. It seems the cartel don't want to endanger any of their places.

[Flec]

Anyone consider the effect this has on helping to balance the league?

Envisage a situation whereby Moyes plays 1 up front until Rooney picks up 5 yellows and gets banned for one match, so for that match he plays RVP instead (ie the current system).

Same situation happens at a club with only one decent striker, and a personal suspension/punishment for that player becomes a larger punishment for the team as theyre forced to play a less effective striker.

 

Envisage the new system.

Rooney makes 5 fouls which would result in the sin bin

Another club with one decent striker makes 5 fouls that result in the sin bin.

 

The concept has some very interesting knock on effects.

Football could become a more contact sport again as players don't have to dance around on their tip toes when they have a yellow, likewise you might find refs will sin-bin players for fouls in the first 5 minutes that wouldn't previously have picked up a yellow (because it was 'too early' in the game)

[Con]

I like the idea.

 

The flaw in the current system is the player who accumulates a certain number of yellow cards is banned from a future game against a team against which no offence was committed by the player.

 

Thus the wrong team gets the benefit of expulsions due to yellow card accumulations. That doesn't make logical sense.

 

The system is also being abused. Players near the limit deliberately get yellow cards so they miss the next matches on the calendar against weaker sides, so they are back in time to face the stronger teams.

 

Furthermore yellow cards tempts players into professional fouls. Get a yellow for the team. The rule tells players they can break the rules of the game once. That is illogical. Rules are rules and breaking them is cheating.

 

With the "penalty box" idea the team that suffers the offence gets the benefit.

 

The change I would make is similar to OP... I would have 15 minutes in penalty box for worst yellow card offences, 10 minutes and 5 minutes for other kinds. There will need to be flexibility of judgement.

[villarule123]

The sooner Pratini **** off from football the better. Sadly he will probably replace Blatter

[villa4europe]

im going to go with it not working on the assumption that in rugby it creates huge gaps giving the other team an advantage

 

in football it'll be the same as a team that gets someone sent off with 10 minutes left, ultra defensive, you'll just contain / defend / time waste etc until your player gets back on, it'll kill the game

[NeilS]

I also thought at first that it might be a good idea, but on reflection it couldn't work with the way the game is at the moment. As BOF says earlier then number of players doesn't stack up, With some refs dishing out yellows like they are going out of fashion we would have teams playing with 8 or 9 players at some points in the game. Also can you imagine, if your team is leading at somewhere like Old Trafford, the ref suddenly books 2-3 of your team meaning you play the last ten minutes with reduced numbers. There would be calls of corruption and favouritism from fans all over.

[Shillzz]

Not sure how I feel about this.

 

My initial reaction was no way, the actual game of football doesn't need to be meddled with, particularly not by a frenchman. 

 

People have made some pretty valuable points in this thread though. I particularly agree with Con's point about the punishment for yellow cards often coming to fruition against future opposition.

 

That said, I would still be wary about making any rule changes to the game of football, particularly one as substantial as this. 

[BOF]

Even the initial responses in here from those who think it could work seem to have some condition around changes to what constitutes the current yellow and red card offences. Which is also my condition for anything like this working. It can't be left to the referee though. It would have to be outlined explicitly in the rules in much the same way that the giving of direct and indirect free kicks are currently differentiated. Because in the referee's defence, he has enough to be doing without deciding arbitrarily on some pseudo-traffic light system of where an offence falls.

Maybe this is what Platini wants though. You start off by throwing a crude and rudimentary suggestion out there. You get all of the feedback in, positive and negative, and then the modifications and fine tuning start off the back of that feedback.

If implemented properly, the sin bin could be a good thing. That's an enormous 'if' though. The devil would be in the detail and unfortunately I'd have absolutely zero faith in their ability to implement it properly or seamlessly.

Another point worth making is that a sin bin would also add another level of complexity to a sport that FIFA are usually at pains to keep as simple and as 'beautiful' as possible. So in that sense it kind of goes against their ethos* too.

* although I acknowledge that Platini is UEFA, not FIFA.

[maqroll]

If they bring the rule in, they'd better be sure every decision is 100% sound, and the only way to ensure that is by video review.

 

It would turn football into something else. I'd like to see video review for disputed goals/non-goals and penalties/non-penalties, but that's it. 

 

If it's a "Sin Bin" he wants, he can shove Sepp Blatter into it and call it a day.

[villa4europe]

Another point worth making is that a sin bin would also add another level of complexity to a sport that FIFA are usually at pains to keep as simple and as 'beautiful' as possible. So in that sense it kind of goes against their ethos* too.

 

good point, video refs will delay games and make the beautiful game more complicated than it needs to be but sin bins somehow wont?

 

what would happen when the 10 minutes are up but the opposition manage to keep the ball in play for an additional 2/3 minutes and score? assuming you'd have to use the same rules as an injured player and have the ref call you back on

Edited December 5, 2013 by villa4europe

[ChrisVillan]

Even the initial responses in here from those who think it could work seem to have some condition around changes to what constitutes the current yellow and red card offences.

 

And some suggest players shouldn't be suspended, using logic that would rule out suspensions for red cards as well.