What is your experience of mental health?

[lapal_fan]

 

I can't comprehend the thinking process of leading to the events you mention @Jimzk5, but I'm glad you didn't manage to fulfil your intentions.  

I've always been a glass half full kind of person.  I've always thought "It'll turn out to be ok, I'll be alright" even when I've been sacked or made redundant with a mortgage to pay and a wife (no kids at the time).  That attitude has made me less driven than others, and I have this weird thing where even though I often feel content with what I have, I have fleeting thoughts that I should be doing so much better than I am.  But y'know.. effort an all that. 

But reaching the point where I'd choose not to see my wife, kids or family?  It's not something I think (hope) would ever present itself. 

I find the planet on which we live just too incredible to choose not to be apart of.  There really are some amazing and beautiful things to do and see.  Current society limits those opportunities, but I always try and have something to look forward to.  I often feel a bit "down" when I don't, so I'm always looking for new experiences to do, or show my kids.  

My time will come, but it won't be my decision when that will be.  I hope that anyone truly struggling can find some happiness, because I just don't see that happiness in a bottle, the tip of a knife, the empty packets of tablets or in a needle. 

Stay safe x

[KentVillan]

Thanks for sharing that @Jimzk5 - really pleased to hear things are moving in the right direction after that. That’s a hell of a thing to have gone through.

@kurtsimonw I just completely gave up on dating for a good year or so when I was at my sickest with addiction. One of the best things I did. You can’t meet the love of your life when you aren’t showing any love towards yourself.

Could you maybe park that whole idea for a few months? It’s clearly making you unhappy and creating a vicious spiral of self hatred. A sexually / romantically desperate person is visible from a mile off and is a red flag to normal partner.

I wonder if you’re actually stuck in quite a toxic mindset of seeing every female interaction as a potential relationship and then taking it as a rejection when it doesn’t go that way. This is a dead end street. Don’t listen to the self styled pickup artists. Solid romantic relationships flow from having good everyday relationships with people.

I would really recommend trying something like GoodGym which is active in Birmingham. It’s a mix of running and volunteering, and usually everyone who does it is fundamentally a nice person. Set your objective as giving something back to the world and the world will start giving stuff back to you, I’m sure of that.

You’re perhaps trying to race ahead to the end goal at the moment, and possibly neglecting all the small but simple steps that could be taken to improve things on a day to day basis.

Please also think about speaking to a doctor, though. We can help you on here (and clearly a lot of random people on the internet care about you!) but professional help is available. Please take advantage of it. It really is possible to come back from rock bottom, I have seen it so many times.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Jimzk5 said:

I don't feel totally ready to say what I'm about too on here but I'm hoping it will help you out

In the last 12 months my life has changed so much, i had to quit my bricklaying career at the age of 33 because I've got arthritis in both shoulders and my hip is going the same way, at the same time I got diagnosed with an essential tremor which is basically uncontrollable shaking, putting a key in a door was a challenge, I did what I've always done, be stubborn and be a "proper bloke", but if gone from earning more money than I could spend to feeling worthless, found a couple of jobs but nothing filled that void I had being on site with my mates, anyway

About a month ago i got ill with pneumonia, I was so bad the doctor in resus said if my wife hasn't called an ambulance I'd be dead, after a week I got sent home with check ups to see if I have COPD to see if my lungs are buggered, years of smoking and breathing in cement and brick dust have done damage, I'm waiting to find out how much

On top of this I lost my job, it got too much but I pretended everything was ok too my wife and kids, I took the conscious decision to end it, one Sunday we did the usual family day out, walked the dog etc, in the evening I said I was going for a game of snooker with the intention  of never coming back 

So i went out, got 12 cans of beer and a load of paracetamol after no where would sell me sleeping tablets, i threw my pho e so i couldnt be contacted, took the pills and not long after I threw up, undetered i slashed my wrists

Luckily my wife found me parked up not far from home, I was taken to hospital and sectioned, it took me a few days to finally start talking to the doctors but it's helped me start to understand the root cause of the depression

What I did has changed me for the better but please don't go down the road I went down, go and talk to your GP, you can self refer to talking groups too to tackle this

No matter how alone you feel with the available you will get through it

Please DM me if you want to talk, or even get some phone numbers of people to talk too.

I "liked" this for the news that you're on the mend.

I've met you and you're a top bloke and I'm glad your attempt to end it didn't work! Sorry things have got so bad. I guess the silver lining of your attempt means you're now getting the help you need.

Hope things keep improving mate 

[Stevo985]

@kurtsimonw again sorry if you've already gone down this path, but another thing recommended to me was Birmingham Healthy Minds. You can self refer to them, it's what my GP recommended. I'm ;ucky that my employer offers private healthcare through Bupa so I didn't use Healthy Minds in the end. but might be somewhere to start.

[Chindie]

I've seen Birmingham Healthy Minds. They are definitely worth taking to.

[snowychap]

1 hour ago, Chindie said:

I've seen Birmingham Healthy Minds. They are definitely worth taking to.

I hope (and infer that they are) substantially better than the Worcestershire version.

Edited February 12, 2020 by snowychap

[Jimzk5]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

I "liked" this for the news that you're on the mend.

I've met you and you're a top bloke and I'm glad your attempt to end it didn't work! Sorry things have got so bad. I guess the silver lining of your attempt means you're now getting the help you need.

Hope things keep improving mate 

Thank you and thanks for the other messages chaps

Like I said I wasn't really ready to talk about my situation bit after reading what kurtsimonw posted I wanted to let him know he isn't alone

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

I find Audible can be healthy. Mainly factual stuff. Just try and focus on learning new stuff and I think it’s less likely for your mind to drift if listening to a voice rather than reading a book. I don’t know what I’d do without it. 

When things get really serious and the black cloud just doesn’t lift I think SSRI’s need to be seriously considered.  I know we all react differently and it should be a last resort but when you hit rock bottom it can be a god send when it kicks in and you wake up one morning and feeling ok. Setrelaine helped me a lot. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa

[Chindie]

3 hours ago, snowychap said:

I hope (and infer that they are) substantially better than the Worcestershire version.

I didn't immediately benefit from the service but the people I've seen through the service were brilliant. I basically was seen for CBT and they went out of their way to make sure there was someone I could see as locally as feasible, they listened and understood what I was saying and they tried to tailor their advice to what I was telling them as much as they could.

That it didn't massively help is not down to their failing. It was just I'm a difficult case in many respects and my mind was so firmly set in its ways and so self defeating that any therapy was going to be buggered. But ultimately some of the advice probably did, and does, help.

[kurtsimonw]

@Jimzk5 I'm truly sorry to hear what you've been through, but I'm glad that you've come through the other side. You really didn't havee to share anything you weren't comfortable with, certainly not for my benefit.

Sorry if this is a horrifically long winded post.

I think I've mentioned previously that I've felt incredibly low since I was a teenager, and it was only at 26 that I realised it was more than just being a teen, or growing up. Since then I've had medication and therapy at an almost constant basis, it hasn't helped.

There are a few points I really would like to clarify, because they do often get misinterpreted, or assumed.

First of all, my breakup is something I'm very much over. As people on here said, time heals, and I look back on it with a bit more clarity, and we were ultimately just too different. So my current state is not born out of this, but I think the relationship did paper over some things that helped me avoid being like this. The relationship thing is an issue, though I certainly wouldn't say I'm desperate. A large part of my frustration isn't in the fact that I don't have someone, it's more how people have talked to me about it. I'm human, we're social creates by nature, having a partner is part of this. Every time I'm not actively looking, which I've done for long periods at a time, nobody ever says anything. I do get told "You won't find someone if you're not looking" though, which is true. As soon as I start looking, I'm told relationships aren't everything, that I should let it happen naturally or not be desperate. I don't know why there's this assumption that seeking out companionship in this manner is seen as desperate. If it is, then 99.9% of mankind is desperate, and I'm just doing the normal thing

I would also say that this idea of self love, or lack of it, is something that seems to be assumed upon with in people with depression. My most recent therapist asked me to draw up 2 lists. Things I like about me that I like, things about me that I don't like. I was asked to put these in to 3 sections, physical, mental and personality. I think they were surprised to see the positive list was longer than the negative one. Not only that, but the negative list was almost entirely physical.  My anxiety, lack of concentration and that I take things to heart were really the only negatives otherwise. This is because, as a person, I like who I am and can say with confidence that I believe I'm a good person. I try to do the little things. Smile at people and say good morning, make conversation. I commute to work on the train, I've had plenty of occasions where someone was being asked their details for not having a ticket or cash, so they're getting a fine, and I've paid for their ticket. My station has steps, so if I see someone with a big bag or push chair, I'll offer to help them with it. I make a conscious effort to do what I think is the right thing to do, that would make someone else a little happier. Beyond that, I consider myself pretty intelligent and have a number of things I do for enjoyment. But there is a massive difference between enjoyment and happiness. I can go to the cinema, or watch football, go out for a walk - I enjoy these things. But they don't make me happy, they just fill a void. My only real issues with how I am myself are physical, a number of which can't (realistically) be changed, some I hoped would be through the gym but it isn't working.

I've been happy before, I know what it feels like. It's contentment throughout the day, it's doing things without feeling the need to have to force yourself to do them, it's going to bed at night and actually sleeping. It isn't feeling annoyed because you've woke up in the morning, it isn't that feeling of dread and anxiety throughout the day, having to force yourself with everything you have to get up and do something, anything or taking hours and hours in bed to fall asleep.

My best friend in high school moved to Gloucester at 18. I maybe see him a couple of times a year My best friend in college moved to St Austell a few years ago, so I've seen him maybe twice since he moved. So this hasn't helped, and is just bad luck, but I've not really been able to form any real connections since. I think this is incredibly important to being human. You can be happy with who you are as much as you want, but lack of validation does make you start to question things, which again I believe is totally normal. Being happy with yourself isn't enough. If nobody else likes that person, what do you do? I can't change in to something I'm not. But people either don't like my personality or who I am. In terms of dating, they obviously don't like how I look, or my personality. These things matter. They're not things I can change, but they're important to others and that matters. To completely dismiss thoughts towards you would be wrong. My mind has a very logical thought process, it's why I suppose I've always been in to numbers, stats, facts, etc. and I simply can not help but think in this way. I guess it's like having a degree, you work hard at it and you get the personal satisfaction within yourself - but if you get no job off the back of it, you're eventually going to start getting downbeat, because the way you feel about yourself is really only half of what's needed.

The gym is probably the most frustrating. As most of my dislike about myself is physical, I felt this is one thing I did have good control over. But it just hasn't progressed at all, which makes me worry if it's genetics, and then I don't have control over this either. It's annoying because I have a great frame to build from, and know felt the capacity would be there to look pretty good.

Counselling and medication isn't for everyone. The problem isn't in my head, it's in reality. I'm perfectly fine with who I am as a person, a therapist can't change my own fortunes or how others feel about me, nor can medication. I'm sure it's fantastic for others, but it truly has no positive effect on me. The first couple of times, I got a little bit of relief when I started seeing someone, or took medication. But I think it was more in my own head, the idea that I'm going to be okay now. But that doesn't last, and now it's just a source of getting me further down when it doesn't work.

I don't know. I've tried and tested everything so many times at this point, I'm so worn down by it all. You just get tired and have no fight left.

Edited February 12, 2020 by kurtsimonw

[Vive_La_Villa]

@kurtsimonw how long did you take Medication for and what did you try? I get it’s not the answer but it can help change your mood which itself them gives your more energy and motivation to deal with the root causes of the issue.  
 

There’s not many things that can’t be changed. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa

[KentVillan]

@kurtsimonw Thanks for clarifying everything, that all makes sense.

One thing I can absolutely promise you just from reading your posts on here is that there’s no way in hell that there isn’t a single person on this planet who would like or fancy you if they met you. For a start, you can string a sentence together, which puts you light years ahead of half the male population of this country.

The gym thing is a frustration, I can understand that. It may even be that your mental health is affecting your body’s ability to rebuild efficiently.

Have you tried any supplements like creatine on top of a protein rich diet? Have you tried high intensity intervals (look up tabata) to shift body fat without burning muscle? You can do a simple YouTube tabata workout in your bedroom.

Have you tried doing classes instead of a solo gym workout? Circuit training classes are often very good for all round fitness and will get you going at a higher intensity than a solo session.

Have you also thought about taking on a proper challenge with a clear objective? Eg climb a mountain or learn a new skill or get better at a sport? Gyms are good for conditioning but the best mental health benefits come from things that mix strength, endurance, skill and teamwork IMO. I would really recommend indoor bouldering as a great way of getting fit and keeping your mind active at the same time (and accessible to all fitness levels).

My concern (and I am not an expert or a professional, so take it with a pinch of salt) is that you are treating every indifferent reaction to you as a kind of rejection. Most people don’t have loads of friends... there’s only so many people you can get close to. People are busy / tired / mentally ill themselves and don’t always have the capacity to make the right judgment - or any judgment - on you as a person.

As a teenager / in my early twenties, I was quite prone to thinking that people didn’t like me and then either trying too hard to make them like me or rationalising it as them being a clearing in the woods or in some way wrong. In fact I was often just overreacting to the passive casual indifference of a person going about their normal day. Learning to accept that can be a huge weight lifted off your shoulder.

Please continue to offload on here. I’m positive you can work through this - but you just haven’t quite found the key yet. It’s there somewhere. Being physically fit, able to work and in a relationship are, as you say, reasonable expectations from a life - but just because they haven’t worked out for you yet, doesn’t mean they won’t ever.

 

[villaglint]

Great post @KentVillan I would pretty agree with all of that. Also just from personal experience I would also whole heartedly recommend Indoor Bouldering. It's a challenge, its good mental and physical exercise. it will get you strong and there are a million misfits that do it, almost all of whom are really sound and welcoming. It is an excellent place to meet new people and bond around a common interest. If you did try it you will no doubt be useless at it to begin with. I was. But it's another one of those things that if you like it, you keep doing it and get better and better slowly, slowly. 

The only other thing I'd add is maybe to review what you mean by happiness. You've been happy in the past so you know what it means, feels like. But almost nobody walks around on a daily basis feeling happy. For the vast vast majority, people just live their day to day lives in neutral. We have happy moments and unhappy moments. Noticing the good moments is the key to a more positive spiral. Part of what is so damaging about depression and anxiety is that it takes the great gifts that humans have been given, namely to look into the future and reflect on the past and turns them against us. Forever dwelling on perceived individual slights or feeling anxious about not having meaningful connections in the future locks you out of the hear and now. You miss the moment and therefore the chance to be happy with what is infront of you. 

I guarantee if you find a way to be more comfortable with yourself everything else will drop into place. You are obviously happy with yourself as a person but not how you connect with others. Having arrived at such a dark place is clear evidence that you are not happy. It also is absolutely not purely physical, nobody is not forming connections with you because of your physical appearance. That does not sound logical to me. I completely accept that improving that could help your self confidence which again sets that positive spiral going again but it is not the root cause here. 

With regards to the gym. It is possible you don't respond to that form of exercise. It's a very small proportion of the population that fall into that category but it is possible. I know you said you'd seen PTs etc. In my view 95% of PTs are absolutely awful and it doesn't surprise me that hasn't worked for you. If you really want to make that work I would go down the route of educating yourself via Youtube, websites etc. Make sure you are getting the diet right because the machine wont improve with the wrong fuel going in. Try different exercises, rep ranges, but be consistent and always be following progressive overload so you every set is challenging you. Gains will be slow and hard one but I am sure they will come as long as you are disciplined and give it enough time. 

[kurtsimonw]

Happiness is feeling content. I wasn't smiling and "happy" throughout the day, but there was absolute contentment during the day. No internal anxiety or stressing, for either there would need to be a trigger. That to me is being happy. Now that is my state, without trigger.

In regards to physical appearance, that's why I'm not getting anything with anything in terms of dating. It's also the confirmation from others that I am indeed ugly. My therapist told me not to use dating sites because they're superficial, that people on there only care about looks. Which wouldn't be an issue if I had looks. Thanks for that! I know that's not a reason for my social situations ending poorly, I genuinely don't know what is otherwise I would change it. I appreciate that not many people have lots of friends. I get it. But I've barely had any friendships ever, and the couple of people I would consider a friend, we barely communicate and they live 100+ miles away. It's also a lot easier to not have to lean on friendships when you have a girlfriend, or a family. I know this. So lacking completely in both is a very lonely place.

I have done a lot of research in regards to form, routine and nutrition myself. I have google sheets full of the stuff, including my "progression" sheet. The downside with research is that there's no one size fits all, and almost all information contradicts one another. I've tried to roughly gauge what seems the most realistic. My diet plans I've used calculators to see how many grams of protein/cabs/fats I should be aiming for, how much saturated fat and added sugar I should limit, and so on. There's also not a lot of really solid info for the skinny-fat body type, especially skinny-fat with an above average/high fat %. The problem with progressive overload is that if you don't progress, you don't progress. I've not progressed in a long time, and it's quite depressing to read that, for example, what I currently do at dumbell shoulder press is under half of what the average person at my weight should be able to lift on their first trip to a gym. I don't know why there's such a significant lack of strength in me, but it unfortunately means even home exercises, like body weight stuff, is impossible because I'm far too heavy to "lift myself", as such. 

That brings me to social stuff... I can't push myself to do gym classes. The above inadequacies would put myself in a pretty embarrassing situation in a group class environment. I've also been going to the gym at 3/4am when there is literally nobody there. I'm at a point now where my social anxiety is at an all time high. Gym aside, I can count on one hand how many times I've left my house since Christmas.

My brother rents a room from me, but is moving in with his girlfriend in July. My parents are also moving to Cornwall the same summer. I'd say the only reason I have only done minor self harm is the worry that one of them would be the one to find me. 

Edited February 13, 2020 by kurtsimonw

[mjmooney]

28 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said:

My parents are also moving to Cornwall the same summer. I'd say the only reason I have only done minor self harm is the worry that one of them would be the one to find me. 

Remember, it's not just the 'finding you' bit that would destroy them. I've seen first hand the pain caused to parents by suicide. It goes on forever. If you want one good reason not to do it, that's it, right there. 

[Stevo985]

@kurtsimonw these friends that you don't have much contact with, have you told them about your situation and how you feel? Same with your family?

 

I know that might be daunting and a huge step, but it may be necessary. What you might find is those friends and family rally around and make more of an effort to see you and get you better.
You might say they should be making an effort anyway, but sometimes life gets in the way. We're all guilty of it.

But if they're true friends they'll support you when you most need it.

 

A friend of mine went through a dark spell last year when he left his wife (she'd been cheating on him for a year) and friends just rallied round. Traveled hours to visit him just so he had company, called him every day, organised weekends away etc.

If people don't know that you need them then they might not realise what an effect they can have.

[villaglint]

Oh man it’s tough to read this, I’d so love to be able to help more. We are just guys on the Internet but I do understand your issues with mental health services not working for you. 

There are obviously so many issues here to unpack but just to stick to the gym for a minute. When you say you aren’t progressing is that because say you aren’t lifting any more than you did 3 months ago. So you did 5 reps of 20kg or whatever and now you can only still do the same? The idea for me at least with progressive overload is to always beat the “you” from your last session. So even if you can’t do more reps of a given weight, you then add on an extra set so the overall weight lifted has increased this week as opposed to last week: 

The other thing that maybe stopping you inproving is the stress anxiety and I’d guess poor sleep. None of these is helpful to muscle growth. It’s another one of those negative and self perpetuating cycles I’m afraid. But another one that will be turned around by showing yourself small improvements and building on them.

I seem to remember you talking about join strain before when lifting is that still an issue or is it just lack of progression? 

[kurtsimonw]

4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

If people don't know that you need them then they might not realise what an effect they can have.

Unfortunately they're aware. As are people at work, same with my brother. My brother will make any excuse to not talk to me really, whether it's out of not giving a shit or feeling uncomfortable, who knows. But still.

If I've reached out in the past, I just get "Hopefully things get better" type messages, no actual support. Just a passing comment to shut me up, I suppose. So now I don't talk to anyone about my problems. I guess that's why I end up posting on here, because if I don't get it out, it just gets worse.

I really feel no support at all. I'm quite disillusioned with HR at this point. They seem more interested in me going to work to do my job than how I'm actually feeling, to the point where I just want to tell them to **** off. I can with complete conviction say that even those who I consider friends, don't care about me. Friendship isn't always a two way thing, feelings aren't always mutual. I genuinely feel completely alone. It's absolutely frightening to open my phone and see that in the last 2 months I've had messages from 5 different numbers, and one of those is a **** doctors appointment reminder.

[lapal_fan]

I think some of the problem Kurt, is that you've thought so deeply about the situation you currently find yourself facing, that there is very little we can say to you on here without you already having a precursored answer waiting.  

You seem to have very deep self-awareness, you're obviously very good at getting into the details.  

My wife sometimes has the inability to "switch off", her brain is either planning something or doing something.  She bought a job lot of beads and strings and stuff just so her mind and hands could be doing something on an evening. 

You appear to have the job, gym and other bits you do to fulfil your time sorted - is there anything which can make you relax?  

Massage?  Get out the country with a backpack and go exploring?  What puts you at ease?

[lapal_fan]

13 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said:

Unfortunately they're aware. As are people at work, same with my brother. My brother will make any excuse to not talk to me really, whether it's out of not giving a shit or feeling uncomfortable, who knows. But still.

If I've reached out in the past, I just get "Hopefully things get better" type messages, no actual support. Just a passing comment to shut me up, I suppose. So now I don't talk to anyone about my problems. I guess that's why I end up posting on here, because if I don't get it out, it just gets worse.

I really feel no support at all. I'm quite disillusioned with HR at this point. They seem more interested in me going to work to do my job than how I'm actually feeling, to the point where I just want to tell them to **** off. I can with complete conviction say that even those who I consider friends, don't care about me. Friendship isn't always a two way thing, feelings aren't always mutual. I genuinely feel completely alone. It's absolutely frightening to open my phone and see that in the last 2 months I've had messages from 5 different numbers, and one of those is a **** doctors appointment reminder.

I don't believe that your friends and family don't care for one moment.  I do believe that they don't know what to say, or suggest to you, probably in the fear that it'll make things worse for you.

Mental Health is still in it's infancy.  It's only really been since Social Media came around 5-10 years ago that people (particularly men), started to talk anonymously about how they felt.  

People in face to face situations still don't know how to approach the subject and often just leave platitudes on the table, after all, what more can we say?  If someone were to make light of it, or say "come on Kurt, pull your socks up mate", we're in a time where that kind of thing can lead to sacking and shaming.  We're in a very difficult time, where sensitivities are high and unfortunately, people like yourself and Jim find themselves in a self perpetuating hole. 

For strangers like us, I really think the onus is on you to say what makes you think "**** yea! I can't wait for that".  We're not Dr's unfortunately!