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What is your experience of mental health?


AstonMartyn88

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Drugs do not deal with the cause of the problem, they only reduce the symptoms.

Not only this but the basis for which psychiatric drugs are prescribed, as a cure for a chemical imbalance, is a myth. Despite thousands of studies there is no direct evidence proving that theory. Medication works for 50-65% of those treated with it and to varying degrees in each case. There is a consensus that once medication ceases that a relapse is likely.

The belief within the medical model is that illness has a physical and organic cause.  However, failure to find convincing physical or biological causes throws the validity of the medical model into question. As the medical model is focused on these physical causes it largely ignores environmental or psychological causes.

It was only a decade ago that psychiatrist Norman Doidge published his book 'The Brain That Changes Itself' (a very worthwhile read). This shares with us the knowledge that the brain is not hardwired as we thought and that phenomenal stories of recovery and improvement are being made. It however requires us to reconsider old doctrines and dogma.

@dubbs Like others have said, talking to a professional is a really good idea. It gets the ball rolling with addressing concerns. It can and should also be a source for you to consider or revisit the lifestyle you want to live. An outlet for you to vent but also bounce ideas back and forth. Who wouldn't benefit from that?

My advice though is to remember that a clinical setting and observation (no matter how perceptive) from a professional doesn't allow for infallible judgements to be made.

Take what serves you and leave what doesn't.

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Esketamine, a drug being touted as a new treatment for depression has been given the green light in the USA and I'm assuming most countries will be interested as well. It's basically Ketamine the horse tranquilizer/club drug. I tried it once recreationally and it was 30 minutes of contained agony. You can talk and move and nobody knows you're **** up, but you feel like you're paralyzed, not by fear but with a helplessness. You are put in a state of total dissociation. I assume Esketamine is just a partial derivative of ketamine. I'd currently take Lexapro and it works, but my sex drive has bottomed out. I wonder if Esketamine could help me without the boner shredding side effects? 

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1 hour ago, maqroll said:

Esketamine, a drug being touted as a new treatment for depression has been given the green light in the USA and I'm assuming most countries will be interested as well. It's basically Ketamine the horse tranquilizer/club drug. I tried it once recreationally and it was 30 minutes of contained agony. You can talk and move and nobody knows you're **** up, but you feel like you're paralyzed, not by fear but with a helplessness. You are put in a state of total dissociation. I assume Esketamine is just a partial derivative of ketamine. I'd currently take Lexapro and it works, but my sex drive has bottomed out. I wonder if Esketamine could help me without the boner shredding side effects? 

Seems like you had the infamous K-Hole experience. How much did you take? Surely more than a point. K-Hole (if you weren't familiar) is like greening out from weed.

Might be stating the obvious but have you discussed or even tried different medications with your doctor? Could be worth a shot.

MDMA was also in the discussion for treating depression. I could definitely see how that would work. Ketamine not so much. I'll be reading up on that.

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8 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

Only a doctor will be able to answer that, but if you're able to share it with us hopefully you can share it with a GP too.

When I'm having episodes of depression I tend to want my own space, and people underestimate how tiring it is being depressed and anxious.  In my case, I think so much that my brain just gets exhausted.

I've been taking anti-depressants again for a while now and it helps me with the symptoms you've described about small things having a big impact.  I think of it in a couple of ways - firstly I think of my mental capacity as being finite, like a bucket.  If it's full of stress and anxiety already then there isn't room for any more.  Drop a tiny pebble into a bucket full of water and it'll overflow.  Secondly, the anti-depressants help to replace a chemical in my brain that's depleted.  If I have a headache I take paracetamol, if I have the shits I take imodium.  Why would this be any different?

Again, only a doctor can tell you what is wrong with you specifically.  But I can relate to what you're describing, and my doctor has helped me find a way through it.  More than once.

We're all here for you.  You will get through this - you've just got to give yourself the best chance.

Cheers bud.  I've felt this way before and been prescribed anti depressants but can't say they worked for me.  That was a few years ago and maybe this time might be different.  Thanks mate. 

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I've been prescribed an SSRI to treat my insomnia, a week in and it has been horrendous, a number of minor but uncomfortable side effects and my 'sleep' is even worse, which I didn't think was possible. There's a minor improvement in overall mood, which is I guess is the job of an SSRI. Generally I'm sceptical about the efficacy for treating insomnia though. SSRI's are known to increase wakefulness among many users and the medical evidence isn't really there in terms of robust RCT data. 

I'm at a point where insomnia is reaching a personal crisis, massive impacting my ability to do every day stuff. I will likely continue the SSRI experiment and request a higher dosage in order to give it a fair go (50mg of sertraline is doing nothing in terms of the 'drowsiness' it's supposed to yield). I'm also beginning CBT-I soon and that appears to have rave reviews.

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15 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

I've been prescribed an SSRI to treat my insomnia, a week in and it has been horrendous, a number of minor but uncomfortable side effects and my 'sleep' is even worse, which I didn't think was possible. There's a minor improvement in overall mood, which is I guess is the job of an SSRI. Generally I'm sceptical about the efficacy for treating insomnia though. SSRI's are known to increase wakefulness among many users and the medical evidence isn't really there in terms of robust RCT data. 

I'm at a point where insomnia is reaching a personal crisis, massive impacting my ability to do every day stuff. I will likely continue the SSRI experiment and request a higher dosage in order to give it a fair go (50mg of sertraline is doing nothing in terms of the 'drowsiness' it's supposed to yield). I'm also beginning CBT-I soon and that appears to have rave reviews.

Some medications can take up to months to see notable change. Has your treating doctor given you any insight as to when to expect change?

I'm with you though, I wouldn't of thought a drug used predominantly as an anti-depressant would be all that effective for treating insomnia.

I know they are highly addictive and you've mentioned your thoughts on them elsewhere but could something like Diazepam be a short term fix?

I was suffering in a similar fashion some years ago and a fortnight of Diazepam allowed my sleeping pattern to return to normal and helped in some other areas too.

The only downside was that once the script ran out I contacted my psychologist to ask my psychiatrist to write me another script!

Thankfully the clinic didn't do repeat scripts for drugs of addiction. But point is it was a very efficient short term solution for me.

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51 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

I've been prescribed an SSRI to treat my insomnia, a week in and it has been horrendous, a number of minor but uncomfortable side effects and my 'sleep' is even worse, which I didn't think was possible. There's a minor improvement in overall mood, which is I guess is the job of an SSRI. Generally I'm sceptical about the efficacy for treating insomnia though. SSRI's are known to increase wakefulness among many users and the medical evidence isn't really there in terms of robust RCT data. 

I'm at a point where insomnia is reaching a personal crisis, massive impacting my ability to do every day stuff. I will likely continue the SSRI experiment and request a higher dosage in order to give it a fair go (50mg of sertraline is doing nothing in terms of the 'drowsiness' it's supposed to yield). I'm also beginning CBT-I soon and that appears to have rave reviews.

It sounds like your insomnia is far more serious than my own sleep issues, so forgive me if this suggestion is well short of useful but I've been using a website - https://www.sleepio.com - on advice recently. It is a gentle form of CBT in that it gets you to monitor your bedtime routines, level of sleep you get, and write a diary to reflect on what you're doing, or what you're thinking. You can also "have sessions" where the chap talks through what you want to address mostly. It is also full of all the usual resources about the science of sleep etc if reading up on it helps. I used to find reading about it hindered me though as I felt an added pressure to start sleeping better immediately, which wasn't helpful for but, everyone's different.

It really might not be appropriate or worthwhile for you, but just as a small option to think through and you said you're going to be beginning CBT-I anyway. I'm using it to try and focus myself on ridding poor habits and giving my mind time to calm down before settling to bed. 

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55 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

Some medications can take up to months to see notable change. Has your treating doctor given you any insight as to when to expect change?

I'm with you though, I wouldn't of thought a drug used predominantly as an anti-depressant would be all that effective for treating insomnia.

I know they are highly addictive and you've mentioned your thoughts on them elsewhere but could something like Diazepam be a short term fix?

I was suffering in a similar fashion some years ago and a fortnight of Diazepam allowed my sleeping pattern to return to normal and helped in some other areas too.

The only downside was that once the script ran out I contacted my psychologist to ask my psychiatrist to write me another script!

Thankfully the clinic didn't do repeat scripts for drugs of addiction. But point is it was a very efficient short term solution for me.

The rationale given to me RE SSRI's was that it'd make me drowsy, I'd imagine that this shouldn't require any build up time, whilst the mood stabilising aspect certain does require that time.  Perhaps another line of thinking is that it will correct the anxiety that the insomnia causes due to a lack of REM sleep, once this corrected sleep might be improved. But for me, it's not doing what was advertised, happy to try a higher dosage and see what happens in the interests of ruling things out.

I've used benzodiazepines and non-benzo's (Zopiclone etc), generally not very effective for me with terrible side effects.  

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33 minutes ago, Rodders said:

It sounds like your insomnia is far more serious than my own sleep issues, so forgive me if this suggestion is well short of useful but I've been using a website - https://www.sleepio.com - on advice recently. It is a gentle form of CBT in that it gets you to monitor your bedtime routines, level of sleep you get, and write a diary to reflect on what you're doing, or what you're thinking. You can also "have sessions" where the chap talks through what you want to address mostly. It is also full of all the usual resources about the science of sleep etc if reading up on it helps. I used to find reading about it hindered me though as I felt an added pressure to start sleeping better immediately, which wasn't helpful for but, everyone's different.

It really might not be appropriate or worthwhile for you, but just as a small option to think through and you said you're going to be beginning CBT-I anyway. I'm using it to try and focus myself on ridding poor habits and giving my mind time to calm down before settling to bed. 

I've recently found that site, 'switching off' is absolutely my biggest problem and it's clear to me that I do not associate the bedroom with sleep, which is a massive problem. Have you tried sleep restriction therapy? It's something I'm going to give a go shortly.

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3 hours ago, dubbs said:

Cheers bud.  I've felt this way before and been prescribed anti depressants but can't say they worked for me.  That was a few years ago and maybe this time might be different.  Thanks mate. 

Without knowing your full circumstances, for me anti-depressants have to be part of the solution.  I partner them with counselling and pro-actively making lifestyle changes of things that aren't helping me.

Medication can act as a crutch, but just like a real crutch, they're not always helpful on their own.  If you break an ankle a crutch will help you get around, but you need more treatment if you're ever going to walk again.

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20 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

I've recently found that site, 'switching off' is absolutely my biggest problem and it's clear to me that I do not associate the bedroom with sleep, which is a massive problem. Have you tried sleep restriction therapy? It's something I'm going to give a go shortly.

I do know that when I feel wide awake after 20 minutes of settling down, I'm better off wandering out of the room for a bit, sometimes I may go and read.  Advice always seems to be a bit conflicting on whether it's better to do something "active" or not, but I've long since learned that lying down getting stressed is a vicious cycle so I often just accept that a night is going to involve me being awake, and I'll just decide to play around with my thoughts instead, just focusing on relaxing, and not bothering with sleep too much. Difficult sometimes when you're knackered and your brain is just being a total thunder clearing in the woods.  The site talks about sleep efficiency so  I do wander if I'm better off reading a book outside of the bedroom instead. 

 I am mostly really beginning to recognise that I do way too much multitasking of not alot,  arsing about with my phone etc in the evenings that I know I just have never given my brain and routines enough time to settle down. But changing the habits is tough, as usually something always crops up, I went and played cricket yesterday evening, it didn't start until 9, tonight its cinema etc etc. The one thing the sleep diary does do day by day is it forces to keep mentally recognising the patterns of behaviour I do, which is why I think this is probably the best approach, personally, for me to eventually reprogramme my habits. And then I realise ideas like leaving the phone off in the evening and not automatically searching for another episode of something to watch etc seem ridiculously difficult to follow. My routines unnervingly feel like a seriously addictive pattern.  So i know switching that requires a lot of effort!

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4 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

I've been prescribed an SSRI to treat my insomnia, a week in and it has been horrendous, a number of minor but uncomfortable side effects and my 'sleep' is even worse, which I didn't think was possible. There's a minor improvement in overall mood, which is I guess is the job of an SSRI. Generally I'm sceptical about the efficacy for treating insomnia though. SSRI's are known to increase wakefulness among many users and the medical evidence isn't really there in terms of robust RCT data. 

I'm at a point where insomnia is reaching a personal crisis, massive impacting my ability to do every day stuff. I will likely continue the SSRI experiment and request a higher dosage in order to give it a fair go (50mg of sertraline is doing nothing in terms of the 'drowsiness' it's supposed to yield). I'm also beginning CBT-I soon and that appears to have rave reviews.

Honestly, that sounds really irresponsible from your doc. All you need is some decent cannabis or even just CBD capsules. What's the grassroots cannabis legalization movement in the UK look like?

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1 hour ago, maqroll said:

Honestly, that sounds really irresponsible from your doc. All you need is some decent cannabis or even just CBD capsules. What's the grassroots cannabis legalization movement in the UK look like?

Tried both to no effect. CBD here at least is a total nonsense, not enough cannabinoids/THC and frankly there's no robust research on the right dosing for it anyway. Decent cannabis isn't easy to get here, it's too strong and I don't react to it well at all. 

I'd definitely welcome legalisation, that way low THC strains can be guaranteed and that's what I'd be after.

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3 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

The rationale given to me RE SSRI's was that it'd make me drowsy, I'd imagine that this shouldn't require any build up time, whilst the mood stabilising aspect certain does require that time.  Perhaps another line of thinking is that it will correct the anxiety that the insomnia causes due to a lack of REM sleep, once this corrected sleep might be improved. But for me, it's not doing what was advertised, happy to try a higher dosage and see what happens in the interests of ruling things out.

I've used benzodiazepines and non-benzo's (Zopiclone etc), generally not very effective for me with terrible side effects.  

All the best with your situation. Sleep is so vital to functioning as I'm sure you're aware. Have you tried working out? Physical exertion could be a good addition to the routine.

3 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

Without knowing your full circumstances, for me anti-depressants have to be part of the solution.  I partner them with counselling and pro-actively making lifestyle changes of things that aren't helping me.

Medication can act as a crutch, but just like a real crutch, they're not always helpful on their own.  If you break an ankle a crutch will help you get around, but you need more treatment if you're ever going to walk again.

Well said NV. Seems like you're on top of things and I really hope that is reflected in your feelings and life in general.

The vibe I got from @dubbs post was that respite from external factors is what's causing the bog.

I never took medication for depression or anxiety and it came to pass for me. Sometimes sh** happens to good people and you just can't catch a break.

That goes on long enough and it's no wonder people get down.

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3 hours ago, Rodders said:

I do know that when I feel wide awake after 20 minutes of settling down, I'm better off wandering out of the room for a bit, sometimes I may go and read.  Advice always seems to be a bit conflicting on whether it's better to do something "active" or not, but I've long since learned that lying down getting stressed is a vicious cycle so I often just accept that a night is going to involve me being awake, and I'll just decide to play around with my thoughts instead, just focusing on relaxing, and not bothering with sleep too much. Difficult sometimes when you're knackered and your brain is just being a total thunder clearing in the woods.  The site talks about sleep efficiency so  I do wander if I'm better off reading a book outside of the bedroom instead. 

 I am mostly really beginning to recognise that I do way too much multitasking of not alot,  arsing about with my phone etc in the evenings that I know I just have never given my brain and routines enough time to settle down. But changing the habits is tough, as usually something always crops up, I went and played cricket yesterday evening, it didn't start until 9, tonight its cinema etc etc. The one thing the sleep diary does do day by day is it forces to keep mentally recognising the patterns of behaviour I do, which is why I think this is probably the best approach, personally, for me to eventually reprogramme my habits. And then I realise ideas like leaving the phone off in the evening and not automatically searching for another episode of something to watch etc seem ridiculously difficult to follow. My routines unnervingly feel like a seriously addictive pattern.  So i know switching that requires a lot of effort!

Staring at a screen, especially in a dark room, is a recipe for disaster if you're trying to fall asleep.

Try mindfulness meditation. I copped a bit of flack for bringing it up earlier in OT but it's doing a lot of good in this world.

St. Vincent's Hospital Addiction Medicine department has models of therapy based on it. And that's working with drug dependency like Heroin, Alcohol, Meth and Cocaine.

Changing habits is tough, but it's about recognising when you're on auto-pilot and doing things that don't serve you.

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4 hours ago, Rodders said:

I do know that when I feel wide awake after 20 minutes of settling down, I'm better off wandering out of the room for a bit, sometimes I may go and read.  Advice always seems to be a bit conflicting on whether it's better to do something "active" or not, but I've long since learned that lying down getting stressed is a vicious cycle so I often just accept that a night is going to involve me being awake, and I'll just decide to play around with my thoughts instead, just focusing on relaxing, and not bothering with sleep too much. Difficult sometimes when you're knackered and your brain is just being a total thunder clearing in the woods.  The site talks about sleep efficiency so  I do wander if I'm better off reading a book outside of the bedroom instead. 

 I am mostly really beginning to recognise that I do way too much multitasking of not alot,  arsing about with my phone etc in the evenings that I know I just have never given my brain and routines enough time to settle down. But changing the habits is tough, as usually something always crops up, I went and played cricket yesterday evening, it didn't start until 9, tonight its cinema etc etc. The one thing the sleep diary does do day by day is it forces to keep mentally recognising the patterns of behaviour I do, which is why I think this is probably the best approach, personally, for me to eventually reprogramme my habits. And then I realise ideas like leaving the phone off in the evening and not automatically searching for another episode of something to watch etc seem ridiculously difficult to follow. My routines unnervingly feel like a seriously addictive pattern.  So i know switching that requires a lot of effort!

Try Gabapentin, it's a very safe anti-convulsant that makes you drowsy.

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16 hours ago, A'Villan said:

Well said NV. Seems like you're on top of things and I really hope that is reflected in your feelings and life in general.

 

Thanks.

Some days are good, some days I feel like it's a struggle to keep my head above water.  There's not always an obvious reason why a day will turn out the way it does.

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On 10/02/2019 at 20:08, KenjiOgiwara said:

It's weird how just talking a bit about it makes me feel better. Just hope this therapist is easy going. 

They say it’s good to talk. I’m sure talking about things and opening up a bit to people will do you a lot more good than bad. 

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What a very interesting last few pages. Well done to all of you that have opened up. Mental illness affects so many people. My mum, Wife, mother in law , sister in law are all medicated. I should be too, but refuse to take any meds. On a personal note I just think it’s better I don’t, and although I don’t always  act on the positive things that make me mentally better, I know what I need to do when I start going bad. Meds work for some people, but not everyone, so each to their own. I find it easier to open up on a forum where nobody knows me rather than to people at home who know me. 

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