Foreign teams influenced by the villa

[Wainy316]

Most West Ham fans will admit that they got their colours from us.

 

The one about Barcelona using similar colours because of us being the most successful team at the time actually applies to Crystal Palace I think.

[briny_ear]

The story of West Ham getting their kits from us is very flaky in my view. Several key dates and events don't tie up.

 

It seems more certain that we lent Crystal Palace their kits when they set up in 1905.

 

This was their first kit

 

 

And this was ours at the time

 

 

Of course, we have now moved a few notches down from the Juve link mentioned in the OP. 

 

 

[fightoffyour]

no bookies on the front?

[Wainy316]

I'm pretty sure the West Ham one is true.  I've even spoke to some hammers about it.  they originally played in dark blue.

[Wainy316]

 

 

The team initially played in full dark blue kits, as inspired by Mr. Hills, who had been an Oxford University "Blue", but changed the following season by adopting the sky blue shirts and white shorts combination worn through 1897 to 1899. In 1899 they acquired their now-traditional home kit combination of claret shirts and sky blue sleeves in a wager involving Aston Villa players, who were League Champions at the time.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Ham_United_F.C.

[BOF]

It seems more certain that we lent Crystal Palace their kits when they set up in 1905.

Our ties to Palace are more than just lending them a kit. We were instrumental in setting them up. They asked us to help them to effectively 'found' themselves. They are Villa South

[Zatman]

yet they still hired Ian Holloway. FFS 

[Wainy316]

 

It seems more certain that we lent Crystal Palace their kits when they set up in 1905.

Our ties to Palace are more than just lending them a kit. We were instrumental in setting them up. They asked us to help them to effectively 'found' themselves. They are Villa South

 

 

Well they should show us a bit more bloody appreciation then! 

[MikeMcKenna]

The story of West Ham getting their kits from us is very flaky in my view. Several key dates and events don't tie up.

 

It seems more certain that we lent Crystal Palace their kits when they set up in 1905.

 

This was their first kit

 

 

And this was ours at the time

 

 

Of course, we have now moved a few notches down from the Juve link mentioned in the OP. 

This is absolutely correct. Villa donated a kit

http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Crystal_Palace/Crystal_Palace.htm

[briny_ear]

 

 

 

The team initially played in full dark blue kits, as inspired by Mr. Hills, who had been an Oxford University "Blue", but changed the following season by adopting the sky blue shirts and white shorts combination worn through 1897 to 1899. In 1899 they acquired their now-traditional home kit combination of claret shirts and sky blue sleeves in a wager involving Aston Villa players, who were League Champions at the time.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Ham_United_F.C.

 

Trouble is, wikipedia appears to be wrong (astounding as that may seem). Most of the documentary evidence shows they went on wearing their light blue shirts until the 1905 season, when they changed to claret and blue.

 

They may just have changed to claret and blue because they admired the Villa team who were quite successful in those days and won the FA cup in 1905. Or, maybe someone was clearing out a cupboard and said, "Hey, remember these claret and blue shirts we won in a bet 6 years ago...".  

 

It seems a bit improbable though.

[BOF]

This is absolutely correct. Villa donated a kit

http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Crystal_Palace/Crystal_Palace.htm

And the first paragraph here gives an insight into the role we played in their formation.

[McGregor1888]

Burnley changed to claret and blue in 1910 in tribute to us too...they thought the colours would give them a change of luck.

[Shaw_nuff]

Weymouth also changed to Claret and Blue in homage of AVFC and for a change of luck.

 

It worked, they've never been heard of since.

[DeHavilland]

http://m.tamworthherald.co.uk/articles/news/article/20027058

So this is all bollox then?

[briny_ear]

http://m.tamworthherald.co.uk/articles/news/article/20027058

So this is all bollox then?

It's a great story and it has made it onto Wikipedia and, like the author claims, it is actually part of West Ham fans' folklore.

 

But the bit that claims that, in 1899, 

 

When William Dove (who also helped coach the team) showed up one day with a complete set of claret-and-blue Villa kits, they adopted it.

No doubt the amateurs of Thames Ironworks felt inspired by wearing the shirts of the league champions.

Just a few months later, after disputes over the running of the team, Thames Ironworks were disbanded and relaunched almost immediately... as West Ham United.

In tribute to their industrial origins, the team kept their nicknames of the Hammers and the Irons, and they kept the claret and blue colours won from four errant Villa players.

just doesn't stack up.

 

Have a look at what John Simkin says on http://hammersnews.blogspot.co.uk/2009/09/history-of-west-ham-united-colours.html

 

 

According to the Historical Kits website, West Ham first began wearing claret and blue shirts in 1899: “There is a story that in the summer of 1899 Bill Dove, a sprinter of national repute who was involved in coaching the Ironworks team, was challenged to a race with four Aston Villa players at a fair in Birmingham. Dove won but the Villa men could not pay the wager so one of them pinched a set of claret and blue shirts from his club (he was responsible for doing the laundry) to settle the bet.”

This seems very unlikely and the author of the article admits that he got this information from Wikipedia. This story also appears in Brian Belton’s “West Ham United Miscellany” (2006). However, I do not find the story convincing. Nor is there any primary evidence of the club wearing these colours until the 1903-04 season. 

It has been pointed out that Aston Villa was the most successful club side during this period having won the league title five times in seven years. It has been argued that the Hammers might have adopted Villa’s colours partly to be associated with the success of the club.

What we do know is that the directors of West Ham were seriously concerned about the financial situation of the club at the beginning of the 1903-04 season. It had lost £900 in the past two seasons and had an overdraft of £770 and assets of less than £200. The main problem was a full in season ticket sales. The club was forced to sell to sell their best players. This included Charlie Satterthwaite, who had scored 18 of West Ham's 38 goals that season. Given their perilous situation, did the wealthiest club in England, take pity on the club and donate them a set of claret and blue shirts? 

Also, his extremely well-sourced website on the history of West Ham, http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/WestHamHistory.htm has pictures of Thames Ironworks/West Ham kits for 1899-1902 which show them wearing plain light shirts, not the claret and blue.

 

1900 kit

 

1901/2 kit

[villan_007]

I can't see an alternative story though, it's more than likely they got it fom us somewhere down the line

[Wainy316]

http://m.tamworthherald.co.uk/articles/news/article/20027058

So this is all bollox then?

 

Yep.  The Tamworth Herald is bollocks.  I've been in it numerous times.

[TRS-T]

Trabzonspor.

[KjParton]

There is an Arsenal team as well in..brazil or was it colombia? Don`t remember. Guess juve - notts county stands out. 

Went to see them in Buenos Aires - they're not too bad. 

[TRO]

 It says that Barcelona based their colours on ours because we were the most successful team in the world at that time.

 ......was Graham Turner manager, then?