RoyalVilla

There is nothing to tell. Nobody knows anything. Apart from the shit twitter rumours nobody is saying anything. How do you know there's nothing to tell? I just want to know why the OGS deal fell through at the last minute. I don't buy the public reason. How do you know there was a deal to fall through in the first place? I was excited about the OGS thing as well, but in hindsight (and FWIW as I'm not ITK) it appears that we were keen to speak to him but he was only likely to ever be a backup option. Because the whole thing got blown up in the press, particularly in dramatic fashion in Norway, OGS was forced into a corner and had to clarify his position. He probably got the nod from Villa that he was unlikely to be offered the job as they had bigger fish to fry, so he used 'family reasons' to save face. I think if he was our number 1 target he'd have been announced as manager by now. Just my opinion.

Seeing the flyer and hearing these protest plans marks probably my lowest point as a Villa fan. If I thought it would achieve anything I'd be right behind it, but it clearly won't IMO. It serves nothing other than to encourage negativity and personal abuse and will reflect badly on the integrity of Villa fans as the writing is already on the wall for AMc. 1st time ever I've not looked forward to going to a game.

Lol - you're my hero! AMc will be sacked because of increasingly poor performance throughout the season, culminating in the real threat of relegation (and we're still not safe). Add to this falling attendences and undoubtably poor ST forecasts plus risks on getting best value from future commercial arrangements (i.e. sponsorship). Protests or media coverage have nothing to do with it. Protests won't really serve to do anything other than make us look small time and encourage (unfair) personal abuse which, in the end, reflects badly on the integrity of Villa fans. If I thought was the only way, I would protest, but I don't believe this, so I won't. How many times do protesting fans reflect well on their clubs??

I agree entirely, we must do eveything we can to get him out. Keep the pressure on until he goes. He says he is thick skinned, if I was on his salary then I would be. Obviously our first priority is survival but Mcleish has got to go ASAP. I actually disagree with this. He will certainly leave at the end of the season so there is no need to give him personal abuse. He wants to succeed and has worked hard for our club, but he just hasn't been good enough. It is RL who is culpable for appointing him in the first place. No one deserves that abuse for trying and failing. As much as I want him to go, I believe it is already all over for him and to personally abuse him wil reflect poorly on the integrity of the Villa fans so I won't be joining in with any chanting.

Relegation - never going to happen this season. We're about 17/1 to get relegated on Betfair. Highly unlikely

This is my appeal to any Villa supporter considering protesting tomorrow. It is your right to air your veiws / displeasure at the current situation at the club. Think; what do you aim to achieve? What are the possible positive outcomes? Will this have any influence on the decision making process of the senior management at the club? No - why? In such a relativeley short period of time since the (controversial) appointment the only key factor that will be assessed when considering to continue with the current course of action will be the threat of relegation and the resultant financial consequences. Is this currently likely? Pragmatically speaking; no. We are clear of the relegation zone with some favorable fixtures on the horizon. To simplify this, according to the current odds there are 6 teams judged more likley to be relegated than us and our odds are very distant from the 4 most likely teams to be relegated. Maybe you think that fan discontent leading to decreasing attendence will be a fator? Again, no. Our senior management have set us on a course, a strategy, of transition. AMc currently has a net spend of minus £20 million. Our form, position and stuttering consistency are to be expected during this transition phase, and thus everything that goes along with it, fan dissatisfaction, reducing attendence, will be factored into the strategy. Unless we are seriously threatened with relegation (see point above) we are on track as per our strategy. At this point we must recognise that these are accepted short term factors. In the longer term, if performances don't improve then the choice of manager will be brought into question. No matter how unpopular AMc is though, if the team is doing well, attendence and revenues will reflect that fact. As per the issue of attractive football; this is largely irrelevant. Fans want to see success. Success equals increased attendence and revenues (the way that some people talk you'd think Villa have been Barcelona for the ast 5 years!). As for now, our senior management will know that, ratioanlly speaking, there has not been enough time to judge AMc (as per our strategy) and they have made decision for the medium / long term and will stick to them. So, I feel it's unlikley that protestors will achieve anything significant towards their objectives (which as far as I can tell have not been clearly stated though I assume they're primarily focused on removing AMc as manager). So what are the potential negative consequences of protesting? 1. Most important - pressure on the team. The whole point of being a supporter is to support the team. Whilst positivity can lift a team and cause it to over perform, negativity will almost certainly cause it to under perform - even when directed from a vocal minority. So you must consider whether your actions are worth the likelyhood of having a detrimental affect on the team. 2. The reputation of Villa fans - we are already seen as fickle and this will not help our cause. This is already being discussed in the national media. Think about how the reputation of Blackburn fans has suffered; we don't have half as much to moan about as they do! Whether you like it or not (or even care) this will reflect badly on Aston Villa's fans. It will be a repeat of the summer fallout where our fans were made to look a national laughing stock. So if you want to protest tomorrow, just reflect on whether where we are as a club and the potential impact on our reputation is worth it. Supporting a club should be a selfless taks, are you really thinking about the club or yourself? I would never deny the right to free speech, but I am very much anti the protests and what they might mean for our club and will have no problem telling that to any protesters I see tomorrow

Please let this think be a flop tomorrow! How embarassing for us, I've already heard it mentioned in the national media. Im no fan of AMc, im an st and has seen most gmes this season and though there's been bad, there's also been good, I don't really buy this negative football myth. Whats totally evident though is that there hasn't been enough time to judge him yet. The club is in the middle of a major transition, he's only been there for 6 months and has a net spend of minus 20 million! I could maybe understd if we were rooted to the bottom of the table, but realistically, we've been performing like a club in our circumstances. Im taking my step son to his first game tomorrow, so I hope he doesn't have to see a bunch of overgrown, fickle children throwing their toys out of the pram and embarrassing our proud club.

Given is our number 1 keeper - simple. Brad did very well when Given was out which is great, but if Given is fit AMc needs to play him unless he becomes a liability to the team. Given was in good form when he was injured and should simply regain his rightful place. AMc made the right decision starting Given and I'm not sure we'd have got a point if Guzan had been between the sticks today.

No I don't know who we are signing Apart from the obvious links that you've all heard about Given, Parker, N'Zogbia. I do know some who tweet and text who do have links to the club, but then again they said we were signing Moyes as manager until things changed. So I take it with a pinch of salt. Mat Kendrick is pretty reliable but he doesn't ALWAYS get it right neither. Something has changed today for definite and it wasn't Downing submitting a transfer request because he had been told it wouldn't make any difference. So what makes you say that a much bigger offer than, say, £20m has come in. Just a feeling???

I championed him when he first arrived even though he took a long time to settle. Villa were very good to him and I'm very dissapointed with the way he's left, especially the way he's treated the club - always loathed to do business with Liverpool as well with the way they go about things. 20m is a lot of money for him and Lpool have paid over the odds. Looking forward to booing him next season. I'm generally cautiously positive about AMc, but the reality is we've lost 5 of our best regular starting players from last season (Walker Friedel NRC AYoung and now Downing). We will have no consistency to take forward with us into next season which is a major worry. I hope we've got some quality signings in the bag. We need to bring in a whole host of experinced, quality players, because apart from Bent (who is literally the only person I would rely on on the pitch at the moment) we are left with experienced yet suspect players (Dunne, Warnock, Ireland) and unproven youngsters (Delph, Albrighton, Bannan, Clark) + Makoun who's not up to speed. Everyone else is ok, but that's it. Also, unless we have deals tied up, clubs will know we have money to burn. I never felt we'd get relegated last season, but if things keep going badly for us - well, let's just say all the ingredients are there. What must Bent be thinking!

I have kids. They draw conclusions based on their immediate emotions far more often than than adults do because adults have learned to reason. There's nothing wrong with emotion, but emotional decisions tend to be bad ones. Emotions cloud our judgement We have a much better team than he had. His defence had bad injuries and didn't have the depth of squad to cope. He was a top class defender and has an excellent reputation as a defensive coach

Have you read your own post? I'll quote it for you to give you the opportunity: 1. He has won a shit load of silverware, both as a player and a manager. Far more than Moyes 2. I think 'amazing' is a fair and pragmatic descrition when you analyse the context. McLeish had a 70% win ratio in the 2007 campaign. Compare that with Vogts - 2002-2004 - 25% Smith - 2004-2007 - 44% Burley - 2008-2009 - 21% 3. Bringing through young defenders. A reasonable assertion considering the job he's done with Dann and Johnson. He was also a top class defender in his own right and has had good defensive records at his previous clubs. 4. Everything I've read and seen about him indicates he's a winner What can I say. He's had some downs, but the guy's trophy cabinet speaks for itself

Which is farily reasonable. That sounds like a quite decent appraisal of your own 'pragmatic' post, I think the reasoning in my post is pretty disspasionate. What would you say isn't pragmatic?

My God, nearly relegated? How could the board even think of considering someone who almost relegated a club? That's only one part of my arguement. The point is that in making an overall comparison and taking mitigationss into account, I don't think there's much difference between Moyes and McLeish, in fact I slightly favour McLeish. If Moyes was hired, despite the very expensive compo, there's be elation on the boards.

I can't see that the opening gambit of "Don't see the fuss really; reaction is pretty childish and immature." fits with your claims for your point of view or the apparent nonsense in the quote above. I think the exteme negativity is over the top and not fully reasoned. It seems emotional as opposed to dispassionate (which you could say is childish)

now look here you, there's no call for that kind of optimism and reasoning on an Aston Villa message board I am an optimist though I'd say my reasoning was fairly pragmatic. When you really care about something is when you're most obliged to be dispassionate in your decision making and it's often surprising what conclusions you draw.

The whole thing stinks We clearly tapped him up, but IMO we wouldn't have spoken to him after his resignation if we weren't sure he could act essentially as a free agent due to his constructive dismissal claim. Our board will know all about constructive dismissal and PL managers :winkold: I doubt we'll pay any compo. The whole thing is nefarious, but Randy's got his man whilst screwing over our bitterest rivals in the process and also leaving a few mil in the bank for players.

Don't see the fuss really; reaction is pretty childish and immature. At first I was a bit dismayed, but when I calmed down and started looking at his record objectivley I decided he was preferable to, say, Moyes. He's won a shit load of silverware as a player and a manager (including a major English trophy). He did much better than Moyes in the CL with an inferior team. He did an amazing job in charge of Scotland (70% win ratio) His strength is our weakness - defence. If anyone can make the best of Clark, Lijah, Baker it's him. He can build from the back like many great managers would (Ferguson, Mourinho) His PL record has highs and lows, but there are many mitigating circumstances. Moyes avereages 9th place over 10 years at a stable club with good (though not great) resources and was very nearly relegated- fairly meh. He's very well respected in football both here and abroad. Everything I've read and seen about him indicates he's a winner, very determined and pragmatic. Randy will back him to the hilt so I think he could be a real success.

Where's this £2m compo story come from?????

I'd pick Ancelloti. After having a good think about it I'd say McLeish edges Moyes

Ambition. Posted this elsewhere, but wonder what people think If Moyes was appointed it would be to almost universal acclaim. The more I think about it though, I don't see how Moyes would be any more an ambitious appointmen than McLeish. McLeish was a much better player, has more varied experience, has won a vast amount more, including English honours. Moyes average finishing place in 10 years with Everton is 9th. McLeish's record is one of a winner and he has the ambition to come and manage here in very difficult circumstances. He's the one that seems to be demonstrting ambition, not Moyes. I know Moyes hasn't been relegated, but he's had a very supportive board at a club with a big fanbase. His transfers are pretty good, though I think iit's a myth he's had to manage on a total shoestring throughout his time there. He's had a lot more money than a lot of other Prem managers. In all honesty the two seem pretty similar to me, with McLeish having more highs (but also lows). They both have strong reputations in football (Moyes possibly slightly better). With the compo we'd have to pay for Moyes, McLeish seems the better value of the two. I'm very surprised this is the conclusion I've come to!!! Also: McLeish also has a much stronger record in the CL, getting to the last 16 with a much poorer team than Everton's when they qualified for CL. Moyes hasn't been relegated but very nearly was in 2003/04

Villa will have to make a statement today to respond to Peter Pan's quotes. Will be interesting. Feel gutted Had a baby this year and other half is encouraging me to take an ST sabattical next season. Looks like that might be happening now :-(

MatKendrick Mat Kendrick #avfc WILL talk to Alex McLeish about managerial vacancy http://t.co/tXdUlS1 see today's Birmingham Mail #launchesgrenadeanddivesforcover Interesting the bit about constructive dismissal. I guess the board know all about that from recent events. The implication is that AMc has been tapped up by Villa (Corsica) and that AMc has walked out and will claim constructive dismissal thus Villa won't have to pay compo. I imagine someone like Neil Moxey would be disgusted if this is the case. Is it true though?

Correct. Though Mcleish is now favorite on the bookies, with no information in the public domain to explain why. I personally feel it is because of the twitter feed regarding the "ginger scotsman". Free money on BetFair if you wish to lay Mcleish. Can you help me out please mate - never laid someone on Betfair before and it's confusing me somewhat. Edit: remember BF are not a bookmaker. They are a platform that allows people to 'set up' bets with each other Firstly why are there three columns on every manager with different odds? Don't get that at all, surely they are offering one price? Then when you click on a manager - McLeish for example - why does the 'Backer's odds' arrow allow you to change the odds? Also, what is that 'Payout' and 'Liability' option about? And lastly, if you aren't already tearing your hair out, why when I stick £25 against Owen Coyle to be manager does it say returns £312.50 - that seems far too high. Surely if McLeish is more of a favourite at present his lay odds would be higher than someone like Coyle? Thanks in advance VAL Bump. FAO VillaLi0n. 3 different columns are the 3 best sets of odds available. The column highlighted in pink is the best available. The anount in £ shown in the box is the money available to lay Edit: remember BF are not a bookmaker. They are a platform that allows people to 'set up' bets with each other

Another way of looking at it is that we did approach him through his advisors and he rebuffed us. Out of courtesty he claims not to have been contacted by us (which is true if we only spoke informally to his advisors) thus not making our eventual manager look like a second placer. Maybe MK is a bit quiet because the club aren't happy with him reporting that we've def had talks with his advisors. That view seems more realistic (though I really hope we get Carlo!!!)