Cerberus

And this is different from the Villa fans that want him sold because...?

EXACTLY This. I voted Holman MOTM for his workrate alone. His first touch can be sloppy, but he's not a headless chicken. He linked up play well at times, at others he was just a thorn in Swansea's side! To add to your word on Nathan Dyer. I absolutely loved watching Concrete Ron angrily tower over him after he dived. I'm really hoping that's on Match of the Day later! Ooh Ahh Ron Vlaar! That was maybe my favorite moment of the match! I'd love to see it as a gif. Vlaar just staring down at Dyer like, "Little man, you should stop speaking now."

I think we did play Columbus Crew a couple of seasons ago didn't we in our last tour? That's fair enough re the Browns fans not really wanting to link up in that sorta way, you can't force Football onto anyone. I have been interested in American Football for a little while, just don't really understand it. Haha. (and by interested I mean I have watched a couple of Superbowl's and the games that are played in London- all whilst wondering what the actual **** is going on) I don't understand why Al was so instrumental in the move from Cleveland to Baltimore - surely that was more Modell at the time? It's funny how then after all of that Al Lerner then went ahead and brought the Browns of the NFL for a record amount? Do you recon he influenced Modell somehow to move on so he could create a 'New Browns' but it didn't really pay off as they have struggled to win? I don't recall Villa playing the Crew recently, but I may have missed it...when was Villa's last US tour? As to Lerner's involvement in the move, he was a minority partner with Modell at the time and the deal to relocate to Baltimore was actually struck on Lerner's private jet. Did he do it with the forethought of stepping in as the new owner? I don't think anyone could know, but it seems logical. Keep in mind, though , that there were several potential ownership groups bidding for the Browns, so there was always the possibility of Lerner not getting the team. It's hard to imagine it given the struggles of the team the last 13 years, and the drop from relevance (under Randy's watch, one has to say), but the Browns remain a very valuable property. Deep down the league wants a winner in Cleveland to renew the storied Steelers/Browns rivalry (although Baltimore has certainly supplanted Cleveland in this), and awake the sleeping giant. Plus, the continued fan support, despite over a decade of futility has demonstrated that we're not going away. (It's a sickness, I know). I think the new owner, having been a minority investor in the Steelers, has a strong sense of the potential value of a winning team in Cleveland.

I would think so. As I said before, the Lerners have been enormously generous to the city of Cleveland, and despite Al's role in facilitating the move to Baltimore, he's also the guy that brought football back. I really wanted some sort of connection between the two groups of supporters as well, but unfortunately I don't think Cleveland is one of the hotbeds of burgeoning 'soccer' support in America. I've been living in the South for some 20 years now, and got involved with the sport through my kids. I'm not sure how active youth soccer is back in Ohio, as we were all mad for (American) football growing up and Ohio is still one of the major talent beds for the American version. It would have been interesting to have had the Columbus Crew on Villa's US tour, as they play only 2 hours away from Cleveland. Might've been an opportunity to build some bridges. Anyway, I know I'm with the Villa for the long haul. They're my club, thick or thin, and always will be. (I have told the wife that one day we will be taking a trip to Birmingham to see a Villa game, so we'll see...)

Will do, thanks. I'll work on the brevity...see if I can't get the word count in my next post somewhere under that of a Joyce novel.

Being a life-long Browns fan and a convert to Villa, I can add a little perspective to the common perception of Randy over here. First off you have to understand the history of our team: I'm 45 years old, and have not seen my favorite team, whom I've loved since I was a boy, win a championship. In the 80's we had wonderful teams that found absolutely heart breaking ways to lose in the biggest games. Google 'The Drive', 'The Fumble' or 'Red Right 88' to get a feel for what we as fans have endured. You also have to understand that, unlike European football, the NFL has no other measure of success than a Super Bowl win. There are no FA or Carling cups, no reveling in a top 4 finish, or being happy with finishing top 10. Certainly one can be happy about a playoff appearance, but eventually success means winning it all. David Moyes, for instance, with a comparable success rate in the NFL, would have been out of a job years ago. It is also vital that you understand the trauma that Browns fans experienced when the team was moved to Baltimore, despite excellent fan support. The Browns, to this point, were considered a cornerstone franchise in the NFL...the teams from the 50's into the 60's were some of the best the league had ever seen. Some of the greatest players in the history of the sport played in Cleveland, and the coach who basically invented the modern game of American football was Paul Brown, for whom the team was named. We had one of the proudest histories, had for the most part great success on the field, and had some of the best fan support in the league. And we still lost our team. Try to imagine how you'd react if the same thing happened with Villa. You have to remember, then, that the Lerner family had some involvement with that traumatic event. Even though they did bring our team back, some of us never forgot that Randy's dad was also somewhat complicit with the team moving in the first place. It's like the getaway driver who helped the thieves rob your house showing up later with a new flat screen TV and dining room suite. When Randy took over after his dad's death, it was apparent he was not comfortable in the spotlight, and I think this helped fuel the perception that he wasn't really passionate about owning the Browns. Probably a stronger owner was needed at that point to help soothe an increasingly bitter fanbase still stinging from the previous owner's betrayal, and the Lerner's just didn't seem to be that type. Add in a decade of incompetence and losing, and you might be able to understand some of Browns fans' vitriol. I'm not saying it's right, just understandable. I believe Randy and his family are good people. Their charitable work in Cleveland is legend, particularly in the area of cancer research at the Cleveland Clinic. I wish that people valued that more than they did the performance of a sporting club, but we all know that's not always the case. (In England as well as over here, I think) I think it's good that Randy is selling the Browns and I do believe that his heart has always been more with Villa, which is fine...but I think you can understand why we'd want someone fully invested in the success of our team first. I've seen some comments about stupid remarks made on Browns fansites, for which I apologize...but let's be honest...it's not as if everyone on the Villatalk message boards are Mensa candidates, right? Most Americans still are not that into 'soccer' (although it's getting better), and we tend to be arrogant about the things we like. Also, the websites you've been visiting are terrible...try 'TheOBR' if you'd like to see the best of Browns' fansites. Anyway, thanks for your patience. Hope this goes some way to convincing Villa supporters that not all Browns fans are drooling trogs with torches and pitchforks looking to burn down the Lerner castle. Some, maybe...but not all.

I suppose I'm the same as most American Villans. Been a Browns fan for 40 years...didn't know anything about 'soccer' as a kid...nobody played it when I was a boy. Growing up in Ohio, it was football (US style) or nothing. When my daughter began playing football (not US style) 12 years ago, I wanted to be involved so I learned about the game, got involved with some coaching programs and fell in love the sport. Now I needed a team, but didn't want to 'bandwagon' the big teams like every other American seems to...for me I really need an emotional connection with a team, like with the Browns. I guess this was all about the time Lerner bought Villa, so it all fell into place that they became my team. I love that the Browns and Villa are similar in many ways...proud history, passionate fanbase, maybe a bit long-suffering (probably moreso on our end), and hopeful of an imminent upswing. I like Randy Lerner, but understand that he needs to start having some success (on both sides of the ocean). He's had some tough luck with the Browns, but I think made a good call hiring in a team president to take care of team decisions. I'm also very excited about the Lambert hiring for Villa, so I'm optimistic about the future for both of my clubs.

When I saw the starting 11 I thought we were in for a loss for sure, so I was pleasantly surprised...particularly with the performance in the 1st half. I thought we held the ball very well. Yes, we're lacking service but there was one Bent/Zog linkup which may be a foretelling of a developing partnership...let's hope. I thought Ian Darke mentioned Makoun being unavailable due to an injury? Has anybody heard anything about that? Certainly needed some spark in the midfield in the 2nd half as Petrov's legs gave out, and as Delph, IMO, lost the thread of the game. I agree Ireland would have been better...anything to get it going. Thought Albrighton brought some energy and just missed on the outside post. Frankly, I think all this about McLeish going overly defensive and just hoofing is nonsense. He may not have the personnel right yet, but I thought we showed an attacking willingness throughout, and was happy we were still making some attempt to win in the last 10 minutes, when we could have just packed in for the point. I thought our whole team played heroic defense today, and actually finished the damn game. One thing that used to kill me under MoN was that no result ever seemed safe at the end of games...we were constantly giving away points at the end of matches. I saw no flagging effort today and thought the team worked like fiends. Yes, we need more creativity in the midfield and service for Bent. Hopefully it will come as the team works together.

Better. Nice try Marc.

On the upside, I think Warnock's been game today.

F***ing Heskey. What a hash that was.

I take it back...leave Delph on, take Zog off. He doesn't seem up to it today.

At the top of the match I thought they said Makoun was an injury concern?

Delph needs to come off. Has he gotten a ball right today?

All right, I stand corrected....now we're playing shite.

I was also going to say I thought we were the better side, but given the mountain of negativity I see here, I realize I must be retarded. Apparently , we're utter shite and I don't have the sense to realize it. Yes, we need to find service in the final 3rd, but to be honest this game has progressed much better than I thought it would when I saw the starting 11. But then, I'm an American and apparently a total retard.

Anyone watching the US/Mex game with an objective eye would tell you that Lichaj was not the problem on defense. Cherundulo going down in the 12th minute and being subbed out for the pitiful Jonathon Bornstein was the main problem. Once Bornstein came in, Mexico bullrushed his side of the field, Bocanegra and Goodson were exposed for being too damn slow in the center (sorry, it's 'centre' over there, isn't it?), and Bob Bradley foolishly decided to continue to try and match the Mexicans' speed. Lichaj may have looked lost at times, but who could blame him? He was a lone matador in a ring full of bulls.

Well, if there's one thing I know from American cinema, it's that guys with Scottish accents always start off curmudgeonly and gruff, but they always turn out lovable and full of wisdom at the end. The other thing I know is that I'm not really sure how to spell 'curmudgeonly'.

Something to consider re: Randy listening to fan protest: Several years ago, Randy had hired a well respected scout from the Baltimore Ravens to be the General Manager of the Browns. His name is Phil Savage (no relation to the Def Lep bassist as far as I'm aware) and was credited with helping to build the Ravens into the Super Bowl champion and perennial contender they still are today (bastards). His hiring was greeted with accolades from Browns fans far and wide. In Phil's 2nd year (if I remember rightly) there was word of a power struggle between him and the team president, Doug Collins, and word was Phil was on his way out. Cue fan protest. Browns fans inundated Randy's office with emails and calls, howling about the possibility of losing goldenboy Phil Savage to some tosser president that none of us knew. I myself sent a handful of emails, hoping to somehow save Phil's job and the future of my beloved team. Phil won. Browns fans patted each other on the backs and congratulated ourselves on proving that the fans still had some power. Then Phil turned out to be a total word removed. After he and the coach, Romeo Crennel, were fired stories from multiple sources came out about how Phil Savage was power-mad and worked actively to undercut his coaching staff on every little thing. Set the Browns back 5 years at least. I'm not sure what the lesson here is. Be careful what you wish for maybe?

I'm a life-long Browns fan and became an American Villan when Lerner bought the club. I can share my feelings on Randy having watched him run the Browns for the last few years. I believe that he is an honorable man who cares about doing business the right way and also about the history, fans and legacy of both of his football teams. His nickname over here is 'Jammies' because when he took over the Browns from his recently deceased dad, he related a story of how he proudly wore his Browns pajamas as a kid. I honestly believe he has the same passion for Villa, and has shown it in his willingness to invest in the club. The story behind the Browns' last coaching change gives you an idea about Randy's weakness, however. Long story short: Randy hired Eric Mangini (not a popular choice with fans or media) Eric 'cleaned out' the Browns of high-priced, troublesome players and consequently had a terrible start to his first season...resulting in much wailing from fans and media. (American football is a bit different in that it takes much longer to turn around a team that's gone on hard times...Mangini's struggles didn't surprise some of us more level headed fans) Halfway through Mangini's first season, Randy cleaned out the General Manager that Mangini had appointed (with Randy's blessing) and hired in a football legend named Mike Holmgren as team president. Essentially hiring in a guy who would have firing power over the coach Randy had hired a half year before. To his credit, Mangini did his best to make it work but eventually failed. So, as a fan, what am I to think of Randy? The whole episode smacked of panic and knee-jerk reaction, but at the end of the day the Browns suddenly have the strongest leadership structure we've seen...well, in my 30 years of watching the team. Mind you, Holmgren and his new GM and coach haven't won anything yet, but we feel like we finally have stability. And what does this mean for Villa? Dunno. Maybe I'm trying to say that although this seems like a total clusterf*ck, I know Randy is not trying to insult fans or drive Villa into the ground. He is trying his best to get the right guy. Also, keep in mind that over here team owners usually interview many coaches before making the hire. From what I've read Randy has only interviewed McLeish...it seems everyone is assuming that automatically means an appointment, but I wouldn't be so sure. Anyway, sorry for the length of the post. Hope it sheds some light.

Not to overstate the win, but we did just beat the stuffing out of a PL team currently sitting what? 5 spots ahead of us in the table? ...With subs against starters, for the most part.

Since, apparently, nobody could be bothered to drag a TV camera to the park, does anyone know if there will actually be highlights to show on the news? We get Skysports over here, but I'm worried they won't have anything to show. Maybe they sent a police sketch artist at least?

Well-played.

You can bet the butcher's minding his manners now though.

who had the effort? Downing. Per Sky; Downing, rebound to Clark, shot saved.