Super Jonno

The false nine, has never been used before, until the last couple of seasons really. so why would of anyone heard of it.

Well im not sure if you heard the rumours but Benteke was apparently at Spurs training ground. If this is the case i hope to god we report them at the FA throws the book at them. My definition of book too, not the FA's which is more like a soft pillow that 10 year old girls would use in a pillow fight.

Its the job of his agent to maximise his salary and get him at a club where he is likley to win things. To me the finger points at Randy Lerner as to why Aston Villa isn't such a club - and looks further away than ever from being so. We aren't such a club because we don't play Champions League football, or compete at the top of the table to qualify. We could have offered him the wages of Gvien, Bent and Ireland combined and he would still be looking for a bigger club playing at the highest level. Either now or next year. Lerner has hired te right manager for us to try and change that situation, but you don't do it overnight. Even when he was throwing cash at MON we didn't suddenly turn into a top 4 side, we got close but it took a few years. Agreed - but equally we shouldn't be limited to the £2m scraps that we currently seem to be. I always expected CB to move on - I really don't see lambert get much than the 25% of the fee to spend on players. Hairyhands (who broke the story on here) reckon CB told the club as soon as the season ended he wasn't staying, so some of the CB cash could have already been invested. - I would be surprised now if we invest more than £6m in a striker before the season starts ................(All IMO of course) Yeah I think Helenius looks more and more like a Benteke replacement in the light of this. Young talented players with potential to have a great career aren't scraps. Scraps is a 31 old who had some glory days a few years back but has lost his bottle and his pace and is looking for one last contract. Helenius is a totally different player to Benteke and was brought in on his own merit and what he can bring to the team, 100% not a replacement for Benteke. Chalk and cheese.

Im crying Benteke shaped tears ...... it hurts.

Im not sure whose reaction will be the most annoying when this saga is over and done. unfollowed both but undoubtedly ill find out.

The whole speculation regarding him has been over shadowed by a number of absolute mugs on twitter, the lot of them. Dont get me wrong, JulieB is coming across slightly bizarre and exaggerating her points repeatedly but the pathetic retweeting from both sides of the "ITK" camps is absurd, that Steve Hunt is such a self righteous little shit, makes out as if he is in the right when he is doing exactly the same to JulieB. **** bull shit and the pair of them look like tits, regardless of the outcome of this whole saga. Jesus christ is this going to be the case every time we get speculated to a player? Can I not enjoy a cheeky little rumour here or there without fuktards being let lose on twitter.

If also haven't seen him play so can't comment but my opinion is that Lambert is not one to sign a player just to keep another happy. Benteke or anyone else. Excuse me? I can't comment on whether he'll be a good addition to the squad but I didn't comment on that. My main worry is the apparent reason as to why we're signing him to apparently help keep Benteke. I just hope that's not the main reason, even though it's arguably being reported as such. Excuse you what? I simply stated that I also hadn't seen him play but didn't believe the press in them stating he was being sign to keep Benteke happy. I don't think That's Lambert's style. You told me because I hadn't seen him play I couldn't comment. I fail to see why I can't comment about the report in question, especially when I didn't comment about the players ability but the report about why we might be signing him... No he didnt. He made a small typo and said "if" instead if "iv". Dont worry, he's not out to get you. Sometimes its probably worth reading a post twice

Excited more by Okore and Tonev. Went through a stage of watching / keeping tabs on way way to much football (whilst doing mu undergrad) and Tonev popped up then. Think they could both be very good players for us.

I suppose thats what being a fan is all about, gut feeling hope and second guessing. Wouldnt have it any other way. Fingers crossed we can get one of them, if not... im sure we will get someone else in. ahh I get you know, I was a little lost ha! Anyways, we can live in hope cant we. EDIT: How annoying is quoting on this site, fills up half the page if you have quoted each other a few times.

Helenius has said in an interview he thinks his best position is behind the striker so its not that far fetched, in the interview he also speaks about being played out wide and up front. I dont think he will be our #10 but I think he will play there at some points during the season.

Why would people bet that he will sign.... no one is saying he will join. Were hoping, and discussing the matter. Its not a massive call saying he wont sign either. Yeah I know. It's no big deal. But I also bet £10 that when we don't sign him (because I think we're not even in for him) there will be someone who uses it as an opportunity to moan. I will make a further £10 bet that we do make a signing in the AM position, for a high transfer fee. And a £3 bet that that person is Hiroshi Kiyatake, who excites me more than Belhanda. I know very little about either player, other than on youtube Belhanda took lots of shots and most hit the post and Kiyotake took lots of shots and shimmys and the shots went in. I think this is a poor amount of information to judge any player on but **** it, very few of us actually know what we're talking about. Where have you made these bets and to what odds? surely you cant be turning a profit, thats just if one comes in. Your going off a gut feeling right, why is it feasible that we sign Kiyotake and not Belhanda. Regardless, why would anyone take that bet up with you. Your right, you tube videos are not the best way to assess a player. Iv seen far more of Kiyotake but Im just as excited by the prospect of Belhanda. Either one would be hugely important for us and would be a great signal of intent.

Why would people bet that he will sign.... no one is saying he will join. Were hoping, and discussing the matter. Its not a massive call saying he wont sign either.

I had a couple of fairly lengthy debates with a couple of members on here during this season, around February time. I tried, as did many others to highlight that under Lambert we are trying to play progressive football and lay the foundations for future success. Something I didn't feel the people who were heavily critical of Lambert grasped. The style and manner of the football we are trying to play is more successful at moving clubs forward without a glass ceiling as such, swapping from GH to Eck then to this brand of football is tough, but considering the players we had and the off field issues its not wonder we took a few batterings along the way. I admired Lambert as a coach at Norwich and he was my first choice to take over and I have to say we had a really tough season, we some very low lows, but I think he has done a very good job. Im not just looking at the points tally, where we finished but he has changed the whole culture of the club, we went from finishing 6th, challenging for 4th up until march to becoming a laughing stock, people thought nothing of us. Where as now people and sections of the media are starting to recognise our improvement and the direction in which we are heading. I dont think many coaches could of come in, and turned us around in the manner of which he has. Im not saying he is faultless, but we have one heck of a manager on our hands and im glad my belief in him is starting to be recognised by the masses. He has rejuvenated this club, lifted the fans, shifted the deadwood and has started to give us an identity again. So happy we didnt fire him when things were tough, I just hope we can hold onto him for 3 or 4 seasons and see where he can take us. Not expecting miracles but I feel under him each season we will see improvement.

Amen. The kid is actually starting to get a little too cocky. I thought it was only me that thought that, I think he is a bit of a prick, dont get me wrong im curious about all things Villa so I like reading some of his tweets, but i like reading alot of people tweets. But he makes himself out as some kind of gospel, as if he KNOWS everything that goes on behind the scenes.

Slightly off topic, but can anyone recommend people to follow in regards to Villa news on twitter? Just giving it a go and wouldnt mind a few pointers.

Watch a utube compilation of nzogbia or ireland, they look unplayable, not convinced tbh, unless he's under 5m........ On what basis have you come to that conclusion, you cant question how good he is due to people (potentially) judging him of a youtube video then question his quality without actually having seen him play yourself. Iv seen him play fairly sporadically over the course of the last two seasons. Would be a GREAT addition, and I havent even watched the youtube video of him.

Save your petulant and sarcastic remarks for someone else mucka. I was merely suggesting that the plans and ideas he came up with in pre season cannot be tested to the same extremes as playing premiership football. Ofcourse it gives an indication and he made the decision that what he came up with in pre season would work. It didnt, and he moved on. His got the initial call wrong. Where have I said ignore them? Its right to discuss them certainly, its point of this fan board to discuss good and the bad of Villa. I merely suggested your being overly critical. To suggest im blinkered given the fact on numerous occasions I have said he has made mistakes makes no sense at all. When you criticise I feel your being overly critical. If you believe Collins was a professional and a angel then go ahead and believe that. Everything else indicates he was not a good influence within the dressing room. The repeated sights of him being drunk were from friends, a family member and separate to the alleged fight. Not just allegations, Dunne and Collins were both involved and were disciplined. Try to keep up with your club ey. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/mar/15/richard-dunne-james-collins-aston-villa http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/aston-villa-richard-dunne-and-james-150207 Dunne for a start is no where near as bad as Collins for hoofing,regardless of that though just because Lambert wants to play football doesnt mean he is going to immediately ship every non footballer out. footballing ability aside, Dunne has relatively no resale value as his contract expired at the end of this season, Collins however we could recoup some of the money we spent on him, it was logical for him and not Dunne to leave. If Dunne was available, going by interviews Lambert had when he was asked about Dunne, I would think he could of had a part to play in certain games. Cuellar already was already gone, as discussed. Two huge cancers and shite players told to leave in the form of Hutton and Warnock. Are you kicking up a fuss over Hutton and Warnock leaving ? and Collins leaves. Like I said I would of liked Lambert to bring in one more CB, thats a criticism of mine. That defense was shite anyway and in a team which tries to play football it would be more suicidal than the current one and would not be capable of developing the style of football he is aiming to do. (Try and see the bigger picture please.) I never said discussing the DM issue was irrelevant. I pointed out that Lambert identified the DM issue in pre season. He believed KEA was the answer. He was wrong, managers buy flops. Great managers, good managers, shite managers. Every single one of them buys a flop, no one intends to but it happens. In this case it happened to be in a position we really needed a bit of quality. It was a bad call to sign him, not bad that he missed out on Diame, just a bad call he chose KEA. Middle of page 530 and i quote you saying "He brought in KEA it didn't work out. Because it didn't work out it forced our hand into looking for a new DM. As you have no inclination if we did indeed go for him discussing that is completely irrelevant." Thats the problem with making long posts mate. If you don't remember what you said you end up looking foolish. Also i never said Collins was an angel. I said i wasn't aware of all of his previous behaviour. You have enlightened me on that and thats fair enough. You keep banging on about me being over critical. I tend to think that a team breaking records for all the wrong reasons due to decisions made by the the manager is deserving of personal criticism of the manager especially when we've spent quite some time in the bottom three and are still some way from securing our Premiership safety. Discussing Diame was completely irrelevant. Sorry if that wasnt clear. Bringing the issue of a DM up was more than fair and an accurate assessment of what we needed. So I dont look foolish, a matter of miscommunication and error on my behalf. Nor do I brag about such records, but I dont remember, prior to Lambert taking over, certainly in my life time the club being in such a bad shape on and off the field. EDIT: Actually im pretty sure its easy enough to work out I was referring to DIame and not the issue of a DM. Not sure if i am the one looking foolish.

Im not sure thats the case mate. He quickly impressed before slowing down a little. I think he has been encouraged by the majority but people recognise he does make mistakes but is slowly surely developing and cutting out those mistakes and becoming a handy RB. I personally think he will become a good prem RB

Yeah my bad, Didnt even think ! Ill edited the post now.

Save your petulant and sarcastic remarks for someone else mucka. I was merely suggesting that the plans and ideas he came up with in pre season cannot be tested to the same extremes as playing premiership football. Ofcourse it gives an indication and he made the decision that what he came up with in pre season would work. It didnt, and he moved on. His got the initial call wrong. Where have I said ignore them? Its right to discuss them certainly, its point of this fan board to discuss good and the bad of Villa. I merely suggested your being overly critical. To suggest im blinkered given the fact on numerous occasions I have said he has made mistakes makes no sense at all. When you criticise I feel your being overly critical. If you believe Collins was a professional and a angel then go ahead and believe that. Everything else indicates he was not a good influence within the dressing room. The repeated sights of him being drunk were from friends, a family member and separate to the alleged fight. Not just allegations, Dunne and Collins were both involved and were disciplined. Try to keep up with your club ey. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/mar/15/richard-dunne-james-collins-aston-villa http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/aston-villa-richard-dunne-and-james-150207 Dunne for a start is no where near as bad as Collins for hoofing,regardless of that though just because Lambert wants to play football doesnt mean he is going to immediately ship every non footballer out. footballing ability aside, Dunne has relatively no resale value as his contract expired at the end of this season, Collins however we could recoup some of the money we spent on him, it was logical for him and not Dunne to leave. If Dunne was available, going by interviews Lambert had when he was asked about Dunne, I would think he could of had a part to play in certain games. Cuellar already was already gone, as discussed. Two huge cancers and shite players told to leave in the form of Hutton and Warnock. Are you kicking up a fuss over Hutton and Warnock leaving ? and Collins leaves. Like I said I would of liked Lambert to bring in one more CB, thats a criticism of mine. That defense was shite anyway and in a team which tries to play football it would be more suicidal than the current one and would not be capable of developing the style of football he is aiming to do. (Try and see the bigger picture please.) I never said discussing the DM issue was irrelevant. I pointed out that Lambert identified the DM issue in pre season. He believed KEA was the answer. He was wrong, managers buy flops. Great managers, good managers, shite managers. Every single one of them buys a flop, no one intends to but it happens. In this case it happened to be in a position we really needed a bit of quality. It was a bad call to sign him, not bad that he missed out on Diame, just a bad call he chose KEA.

Nail on the head. A few months is not giving time. I appreciate if the manager is not good enough, its just not working out or if results are truly appalling then you have to call time. But with Lambert he had to deal with a huge amount of issues, coupled with him trying to play football with a team who lack experience, quality in a number of positions and importantly, the Villa players from the previous season had a season of playing completely different football ( if i can call it that ). If we go down, I wont shift the blame to much on Lambert. Certainly mistakes have been made hear and there which have cost us a few points but alot of the points thrown away he cant legislate for, its just our team panicking, put it down to experience put it down to the situation at the time, but I have always understood how were progressing under him and i can recognise where he wants to take us. For that reason, I am more than happy to give him time. 'Trying to play football with a team who lack experience' eh? Who purchased that lack of experience in the first place when there was already inexperience trying to break into the first team? "Progressing under him?" That progression has seen us battling relegation for the best part of the season and breaking records no manager would want on his CV. Did he have much choice considering the positions that needed filling ? Was it viable with the financial restrictions and wage reduction were going through at the moment to go and find a older player with more experience ? probably not, because they would want more money and if they didnt then Id question their quality. He brought in Westwood, Lowton, Bennet and Benteke who are young. Benteke is our player of the season and Lowton and Westwood have been good enough but both showing promise. Only Bennet can really questioned out of Lamberts "inexperienced" signings. The likes of Delph, Weimann, Bannan, Baker and Clarke were all at the club already and are hardly seasoned pro's. I dont like it when people make out he went crazy on youth when he didnt, but given the circumstances we found ourselves in, and the amount of players we needed to bring in players who perhaps lacked a little experience were likely to come in. Do you see everything so black and white ? It is undoubtedly clear that he is installing a philosophy of football in this club, of progressive football. Football that can push clubs on and ultimately be succesfull. We have gone from god awful football, that never wins you games to developing a style of play, which in time and with better players will put us in fantastic stead to push on. Thats progression. Anyone who thought we wouldnt be involved in a relegation scrap ( admiteddly not this much of one ) was naive. It takes more than a season to sort this pish out. He has made mistakes, I dont deny that but keeping a manager who installs belief and confidence in players like he does, coupled with the way he tries to play football is important. No i don't see everything black and white. In previous posts i have commended Lambert for actually changing the system and have been one of the very few posters lately who have continually stated that we would stay up if Lambert persisted with correct system. I also recognise that both manager and team may be finally showing signs of growing together in the right direction but that does not exclude Lambert from criticism, criticism which is warranted for his decisions on team selection and tactics for almost three quarters of the season which has resulted in a relegation dogfight that we're still not free from yet. You also cannot ignore the present state of our defence which has been rebuilt by Lambert. I have seen time and time again the excuse that he had limited funding which to replace outgoing players of experience. Did he have to get rid of both Collins and Cuellar immediately? Could there not have been a 'progression' of changing our defence over two to three seasons instead of introducing players without any Premiership experience to form a new defence. That alone invited problems and weaknesses which are still there. Someone posted that it was Lambert's decision to go with youth and thats why he got the job and i would tend to believe that as Lambert has previously stated that the chairman did make funding available for more established Premiership footballers before the season started. You remember the bid for Dempsey. He also had the opportunity to address our weakness at DM with the possible purchase of Diame on a free who went to West Ham. He purchased KEA and the less said about that the better. Just because we now have had a few decent results against some very poor teams shouldn't convince any fan of our club that Lambert has become a very good manager literally over night. He hasn't, but hopefully he will have learnt a lot this season from his mistakes and won't make the same again next season when hopefully we are still in the Premiership. You missed my point in regards to the black and white comment I think. With him, there is a clear philosophy of the kind of football we play, its one which doesnt have a low ceiling. That kind of football, will give you success. The better players we get in, the better that football becomes and so on. I was making a comment about the attacking / football philosophy of the coach rather than a specific formation he implements. I wouldnt dream of saying Lambert doesnt deserve criticism. That would be daft, and would make me look like a mug. I completely appreciate he has made mistakes, that being said I feel your being overly critical of him. He was trying to find a system, I cant knock him for trying 4-4-2 diamond and 3-5-2. Progressive thinkers should not be dashed aside, but i appreciate a few games were lost on those decisions. He who dares wins and all that, things change in football and I get the impression Lambert is one who likes to be infront of the pack rather than chasing and playing catch up. Alot of our losses / points thrown away have come down to silly individual errors, ones they shouldnt make and although Lambert has to take criticism for some games I dont think its fair to blame him for 3/4 poor performance. We have been playing well enough since January, could be so different if we didnt concede last minute against Swansea ( although we didnt deserve the win ) and held onto 2 goal leads against WBA and Everton. I know thats all IFS and BUTS, but the point remains I feel people have been overly critical of him. Collins yes, he did. He and the club want players who want to play for Villa, who have the right attitude and hunger to suceed. Things had gone sour with Collins and you have to recognise that. He was a disruptive influence on the team and that cannot be tolerated in high performance sport. Did Cuellars contract not expire ? Diame would of been lovely, its all very well in hindsight isnt it ( although I believe you mentioned it preseason ? ), but why didnt all the other clubs go for him ? How do you know we didnt. You make it sound simple. KEA hasnt been the player we all thought and hoped. He recognised the problem though and tried to address it, ultimately it didnt work out but you cant knock him to much as he tried to address it, and all managers have flops in their history. I have been saying this for longer than the last 5 games, I watched him closely at Norwich. He is a progressive manager who I want here long term. He had plenty of time to find a system in pre-season had he not? He has taken far too long to find the correct system to suit the players available and thats why we are currently in a relegation battle. Also remember how many players he purchased in the summer. Good managers buy players to fit the system not the other way about and Lambert not only failed to do that but also failed at how best to use the players already at the club. You are trying to excuse an elementary mistake which the vast majority of good managers wouldn't have made so i do not think i'm being over critical at all! Your saying that Collins was a disruptive influence within the team. Can you actually prove that or is that just your opinion? Cuellar was out of contract but could Lambert not have retained his services in the same way he did with Guzan? No i'm not party to information to determine whether we ever were interested in Diame but we should have been and he probably would have been on a lot less wages than Sissoko who we were interested in. Lambert may indeed be a progressive manager who likes to play attacking football but that alone won't make him into a good manager as we've already seen this season. He had pre season to formulate ideas yes, but pre season is hardly the same tactical test as the premiership is it. He tried to find a system that worked, it didnt pan out he moved on to another system, which I could argue was almost forced upon him with the niggling injuries to defenders at the time, before moving on again, and since new year we have looked a much better team. Which managers dont make mistakes, you make out as if he should come in and got it right straight away. Im not making an excuse, Im saying your being overly critical. Big difference. What players has he failed to get the best out of ? Undoubtedly Bent, but given our complete lack of talented midfielders who can give Bent the opportunities he needs and the undoubted importance of Benteke coupled with the emergence of Weimann im not overly fussed by that. Can I prove that ? Well Im going by drunken brawls, repeated allegations and sights of him being pissed as a fart and not to mention the fact he had a row with club coaches in previous seasons. That and he was playing shite I completely agree with the decision to sell him. Your so unbelievably short sighted in your view on football. Lambert wants to play football, Collins cant, thats another reason for him to leave. I do admit I would of liked him to bring in another CB though but who would know Dunne would be injured for the whole season ? Ahhh he SHOULD of done this, hindsight is wonderful isnt it. How do you know he didnt ? Would Cuellar even come back ? Would our financial restrictions let him ? Im pretty sure MON was a big pull for him ( fair assumption ? ) so you bringing up him letting Cuellar go is pretty insignificant. He identified the DM issue, thats the important thing. He brought in KEA it didnt work out. Because it didnt work out it forced our hand into looking for a new DM. As you have no inclination if we did indeed go for him, discussing that is completely irrelevant. I never said the fact he wants to play progressive football is the only thing that makes him a good manager I just believe its one of his qualities. Im not making him out to be a messiah. I just think your viewing things to short sighted, in black and white and you are being slightly over critical. IMO.

You dont seem to be taking the context into consideration BJ. When have we ever been in such poor shape prior going into this season ? When have we ever worked under such financial restraints? When have we had so many issues going on off the pitch ? Breaking those records is bad, and nothing to be proud of but you have judge this season differently to past ones.

I think it was more a figure of speech. He can be alot better than Hutton who was incapable and added nothing defensively or going forward and still not be a great defender. At times he looks a good defender, certainly issues to work on but I feel he has made small improvements on those, specifically during the last 2 months. Im hopeful that he will become a a good premiership RB for us.

Wigans run is tough in the next three games. City away doesnt need explaining, West Ham at home are a different kettle of fish compared to when they are away. Im confident West Ham can do us a favour there a win against Wigan for them would virtually guarantee them safety ( its looking more likely now though ) and then Spurs. Bale will be back and they are fighting for top 4. If we manage to get 4 points from the next 3 games that would put us in a good position. 6 would be bloody amazing!

So presently our season has been a success under Lambert? As i've stated many times playing the system we are playing now from the start of the season we would be comfortably in mid table. Again black and white... does it have to be a success or an abject failure ? Is there no inbetween ? Not to mention you spoke about the managers abject failings, not specifically the fortunes of the team. hardly rocket science to suggest if we had the form we do now throughout the whole season we would be mid table. But you dont just start playing well immediately... why do you think its that simple ? he had crap to deal with and had to implement his philosophy... that takes time.