Jump to content


Full Members
  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by kiltorken

  1. I do agree with the importance of context but to be fair Tony Barton wasnt one of our better managers and largely won the cup on the back of Saunders work and then oversaw the stady decline of the club shortly afterwards.
  2. Third highest win rate in Villa's history, obviously the win % doesnt mean as much as agasint the top flight maangers but still not as bad as some people make out. Start Date Finish Date Games Win% 1 George Ramsay[5] August 1884 01/05/1926 1327 49.59 2 W. J. Smith[5] 01/08/1926 01/05/1934 364 48.08 3 Steve Bruce 01/10/2016 Present 89 47.19 4 Jimmy Hogan Summer 1936 01/09/1939 124 45.97 5 Graham Taylor 01/05/1987 01/07/1990 142 45.77 6 Tony Barton 01/02/1982 01/06/1984 130 44.62 7 Ron Saunders 01/06/1974 01/02/1982 353 44.48 8 Vic Crowe 01/01/1970 01/05/1974 199 44.22 9 Ron Atkinson 01/07/1991 01/11/1994 178 43.26 10 John Gregory 01/02/1998 01/01/2002 190 43.16 11 Joe Mercer 01/12/1958 01/07/1964 282 42.55 12 Martin O'Neill 01/08/2006 01/08/2010 190 42.11 13 Brian Little 01/11/1994 01/02/1998 164 41.46 14 Alex Massie 01/08/1945 01/08/1950 189 40.21 15 George Martin 01/12/1950 01/08/1953 119 39.50
  3. Yeah, that's all spot on. Richards signed on a free though as far as I know so there would be nothing to depreciate at all over his contract and therefore no extra accountancy loss would be incurred anyway.
  4. Can you provide any evidence that the expected target for Bruce from the club for that season was promotion? Again, you seem to be having difficulty grasping the concept of cherry-picking.
  5. The only valid point in time for determining whether he failed in his objective is the point at which he took the job and was given his objective, selecting any other date to suit an argument is cherry-picking.
  6. I didn't miss my own point actually, objectives when Bruce took the job when we were just above the relegation zone on the back of 50 games with 4 wins was surely to steady the ship and try and get a respectable league position, getting the playoffs at that point would have been a very unexpected bonus in most people's eyes and that is the reason why it's "more valid", he met the objective of steadying the ship, it's not his fault people got overly hopeful after one decent string of results before Christmas and decided playoffs were the new minimum. It's a good job we didn't get Chris Coleman in.
  7. Whether people can cope isn’t the point, and it’s nothing to do with different opinions. “It’s beyond the realms of rational thought” is not an opinion of the issue, it’s a comment about people who have a different view to you. It’s just another way ofvsaying “ anyone who thinks that is irrational”, which in turn is a way of attacking people’s mental state. If I was to say “ your views are expressed as poorly as those of a pre school infant” I can’t say that’s an opinion, it’s an insult ( whether to you or prevschool children is up to the reader to decide). Anyway. I’ve not cherry picked anything. I’ve just said where we were at halfway, as opposed to you saying where we were after 11 games and where we were the season before. I stated clearly that people may or may not think there were mitigating factors, so I’m not sure why you then wrote as if I’d not said that. Again, “ it’s naive” ......there you go again. How about if I say it’s naive to think it can’t be done ? Ner ner ner ner ner. It isn’t naive. It’s just a different view to yours. At the time Bruce, the Club, and every Villa fan I knew, thought we had a good chance. All naive ? You don’t think Bruce’s first season was a failure, because getting promoted wasn’t on the table. Many others agree with you. But many others think Bruce messed up after Christmas in selection, tactics, style, approach, and so on. For my part I think he did inherit quite a mess ( although I don’t recall any of those who say that now applying it to RDM), and I think he’s done a decent job, but I also think he contributed significantly to our poor results in the second part of the season with over caution ( Ipswich at Home a classic). Whether or not he “ failed” as such, he certainly, as a matter of fact, failed to capitalise on the position we were at at Christmas.  The fact that you happen to think the circumstances meant he did ok does not mean you are either “ right”, nor that I need a straight jacket. You seem like a genuinly nice person, I apologise for insinuating that you shoud be put in a straight-jacket. I hope we can laugh about all of this in years to come.
  8. I didnt cherry-pick a moment, I picket the moment he started the job, there is a considerable difference.
  9. I'm sure other people are adults and can cope with some criticism of opinions. It's easy to cherry pick one particular moment during that season where we sort of close to the last playoff spot after a particularly good run (ignoring the 4 or five teams between us and 6th at the time, who could also accumulate points in the second half of the season), the club had a losing mentality drilled into it for the previous 5 seasons before that, if not irrational then it is extremely naive to think that same team could have completely u-turned and gone on the steamroll the league and not only that but that it was a failure not to do so.
  10. I think its beyond the realms or rational thought to say that Bruce failed by not getting us promoted in his first season. Had he got us promoted that year he would have surely been nominated for world manager of the year with a team that was 2 points above the relegation zone and. had managed 4 league wins in the preceding 50 league matches. While there is validity to the arguement that he failed in his second season, you completely overlook the many improvements under him since he took the job.
  11. creedence clearwater revival - fortunate son
  12. vidic should have walked, but he didnt.. and we lost... fa cup final
  13. I meant the ref.... Edited again. Calm it - NV Edited by NV - the same goes for you. Let's calm things down a bit or there will be a few people getting the night off. Cheers!
  14. look, im not a brummie, well not geographically speaking, although i am at heart, \(both parents,from birmingham).. but how can you rationalize mon being sacked... where were we 5 years ago
  15. **** right off, mon is only getting started, we have advanced every year, mon is the best thing that has happened to villa,. fact. clearly people like you dont remember the bad days Only getting started? He's been here for coming on 4 years! yeah, were well in the race for champos, and fa cup still on the cards.. im notsaying hes invincible but for what hes done for us so far i think its crazy to be condeming him at this stage
  16. @ rico **** right off, mon is only getting started, we have advanced every year, mon is the best thing that has happened to villa,. fact. clearly people like you dont remember the bad days
  17. dowd was horrendous but at the end of the day we were beaten well. could have lost by more, keep the heads up and aim for champions league and fa cup final!!! up the villa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Create New...