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If Mogg wins, I’m moving to live at the Black Country Living Museum so I can acclimatise to our future.

Benteke? No thanks. He came to us with the sole intention of using us a stepping stone. We worked hard, deserved his move. He got what he wanted, we got good use and a shed load of money. I can't see him being motivated to do anything with us.

That's a reading which seems at odds with circumstances. Firstly, I'm pretty sure that the GFA included dismantling the various security infrastructure (including border check etc.). Secondly, pure WTO terms would require a hard border to the UK. Also Absence from the CU and SM would require the EU to put up a hard border with the UK. Thirdly, no one on the Island of Ireland (well not no-one, but ykwIm) wants or will accept a hard border. Fourthly, as we've done to death, you cannot have control over immigration and no hard border between the UK and the EU. It has been fundamentally impossible to have both these things. So everything is loaded against having a hard border. Yet May's demands for control of immigration and the nutter hard Brexit lot desire for "just leave" must impose a hard border by its nature (the hard leave). Finally, Ireland has a veto. They do not accept a hard border. They can kill any agreement. Oh and the backstop - it's not made in London, it's an essential part of the EU protecting itself, in that if we leave the CU and SM we cannot have the benefits of them, so there needs to be something in place (which doesn't exist) to protect the integrity of the CU and SM, or N.I (or the whole UK) has to stay in them. Why anyone's making a fuss over something so blindingly obvious, and which has been since before the vote, is quite beyond comprehension.

Sorry, these things have hardly featured in the "debate". I'm sure no-one has any strong views on them, from the Brexit supporting camps.

I fall in the middle of your optimism, and @villalad21 pessimism. I'm cautiously optimistic, and realistic. As I genuinely feel people are hyping themselves up for bitter disappointment if things don't go as they think it should. Difference is I am more confident in our overall long term future in the hands of our new owners/manager so am less panicky and won't lose it if it goes a bit tits up. Been there too many times, I'm currently ok with just enjoying the ride. However we simply must remember where we are coming from and try to stay grounded. I could change my tune completely in a few weeks based on results and table.

I think one would struggle to find a more anti-immigration Tory than May.

Wooooooossssshhhhhh!!!

Because Brexit is so incredibly harmful, that cancelling it is a big enough deal that many would cross party lines to support a party that would cancel it.

Pretty much this. What, 4 months ago we were going bust, Jack was leaving, We couldn’t keep JT and Sam Johnston, the owner had disappeared from view and all was bleak. We faced a year or more of dirge football and little hope. Look at us all now. Enjoying goals and games and the style and looking forwards and upward.

He's called fans 'mad', 'unintelligent' and 'hysteric' for criticizing him. We haven't had a manager since maybe O'Leary who took swipes at the fans before yet people are painting Bruce as the victim when he's had an easier ride from the fans than every single manager we've had since MON. Compare that to how Alex McLeish handled the absolute dogs abuse hurled his way: After the infamous Bolton game. His comments before a publicly proposed fans' protest. An actual nice guy, and not an egoist who's alright when things are okay but turns nasty when things aren't going his way.

Personally, I'm astonished that these people just blundered into something, thinking that they knew precisely how it all worked only to understand late in the day that they actually knew bugger all. Who could have foreseen that?

Just try to enjoy Stoke mate and try not to worry about what may or may not happen further down the line. Im just really enjoying our football of late, this feeling of being the current best team in the league is a rarity that should be treasured!

My choir doing Bogoroditse Devo by Rachmaninoff in Baden Baden. We're amateur but auditioned so the standard is fairly high. The acoustic in that room was awful.

I’m waiting patiently for that McGinn fella to settle in and finally be of some use.

Love this;

Anna Soubry has absolutely had enough on SkyNews. Says she hasn't changed and she's tired of the same tired rhetoric, that renegotiation is with the fairies, shouting at her Pro-May colleague. Wow.

Meanwhile, on planet Truss

Imagine being so desperate to hold on to power that you prematurely end the suspension of an alleged sex offender. That should finish May off on its own.

Here's one for the resident pro.

That flu over his head.

Where is this talk coming from? I can't see him wanting to drop a division to come back to us in any case. Players are seldom as good as they were first time round and I doubt we will be finding out if this applies to Benteke with us later this season. I think we had the best of him and he soon found out that the grass was not greener elsewhere after all. He found that getting what you want is sometimes not what you need.

Yeah, another £50m and potentially much more to already bloated clubs we are some day hoping to once again compete with. 'Great! Always want English clubs to fail, always. Even thou I support IFK Göteborg in Sweden I want other Swedish clubs to do well in Europe because it helps Swedish football with rankings and revenue. It's vital since there is no money in Swedish football. I might even root for AIK (I wont) next season. PL football is already swimming in more money then they have sense to handle, I rather these clubs crash and burn.

There was some tory on the radio this morning, might have been that utter tool Owen Paterson, saying he was supporting the call for removing May because he could no longer trust her. This is a week after we heard that 48 tories had told Lord Snooty and his pals that they had sent the letter, and it turned out that half of them were lying, because they wanted to curry favour with the right wing without being identified as having opposed May, in case it all went tits up. So, both liars and cowards. This is the calibre of the modern-day tory party. Rory Stewart suggested they be locked in a room until they had resolved the issue. If he had said locked in a septic tank until two-thirds of the country voted to release them, I'd have been with him.

Good night at the open mic Xmas party last night. Played several songs, won the quiz (prize: my mate's band CD), and won best jokes of the night - thanks, VT joke thread!

This thread is a bad influence

I've pretty much lost my interest in football so no checked this site too often, but still very much running. On track to hit 3000k by the end of the year. Ran (or least ran, walked and hiked) 50km at Annapurna 100 race at the end of October. Seriously tough but the views, wow. Next race not until February though:( Watch I use Garmin Forerunner 30. Pretty cheap and does the job for 99.9% of my runs, although the battery isn't enough for the ultras. Shoes are the one thing I spend a lot of money on. I used to think they didn't make a lot of difference but changed my view after getting properly assessed and into the right pair of shoes. Currently Saucony Ride 10 for the road and either Saucony Perrigne 8 or Salomon Elevate XA for the trails. Got a pair of On Cloudflash on the way that I'm seriously excited for as I loved my Cloudventure Peaks until the tread started falling off.

So, here are the notes from that follow up meeting:

Yo need to git the jobs!!!!

Whole thing is more like two birds one cup if you ask me.

Knowing Dem, he'll probably get ufl.

To add insult to injury apparently Jay Rodriguez has been called up into the next England squad. .. .. .. Apparently Eddie Jones was very impressed with his try against us

Villan

Our embarrassment of a keeper is going to cost us again before January. I hope it isn't against Leeds because these lot are a bit tiresome now. It'll be frustrating them telling us how good they are when they become another team we outplay but don't beat because of that disaster.

One of ?? Even I’m reminiscing for Gordon Browns premiership

Not with the flu you wouldn't

Alongside Paul Jewell, Mark Hughes, Phil Brown, Sam Allardyce, Alan Pardew, Alan Curbishley and Joe Kinnear, Steve Bruce should not managenagain. Time has been, and time has gone. Enjoy the money, enjoy the grandkids and let football evolve. Let a new a batch of managers with new ideas fill the void. I have no idea what half of the above ex-managers are doing, but, they came to mind. Disclaimer: I would like Joe Kinnear to manage Newcastle again as soon as possible.

It's less of a problem, but it definitely still exists. It's rare that you hear it in the stands. In all the times going to Villa I've only heard it once, and that was away at the Emirates. I heard some word removed shouting from somewhere behind me at Alex Song that he was a dirty animal. I think the issues that Sterling has highlighted recently are absolutely true. It's undeniable that the media treats black footballers differently, even if a lot of the time they don't even realise they're doing it. Brexit isn't the cause. Brexit is just another symptom that goes hand in hand with Racism. The media isn't the only cause, but particularly outlets like The S*n and the Daily Mail have a LOT to answer for on both Racism in Football and Brexit. They both stem from the same anti-immigration, little England, brown people are bad mindset that those papers help to push.

Never heard of them.