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Jesus. About three weeks ago there were people on this thread saying that there's no chance we'll go down, now there are posters stating that this is the lowest point Villa have sunk in 20 years?! Get a grip! We were poor today, but regardless of that we were still in front before the sending off and if we had hung on (a reasonable chance we would have), this thread would again be virtually ignored or disregarded tonight because people would just be satisfied with the three points. People may argue "but we didn't win" - but what can you do about a silly sending off? If Joe Bennett had used his brain, believe it or not, the odds are that we would have won! It does look bleak, but to revert back to all of this knee-jerk negativity is exactly what has put us in this mess in the first place. The first sign of a struggle and collectively us Villa fans manage to create this horrible atmosphere around the club which helps absolutely nothing. It has happened to three of the last four managers: when things haven't been going well, Villa fans make it ten times worse by jumping on backs and making it near-impossible to turn things around. Please prevent this from happening this season, because if it does, we will actually go down!

You shouldn't mess with time travel. Next thing you know you are you own father, and you are part Indian!

Enjoyed this post. Additionally, the developments in the Premier League have done us no good at all. With all the points you've made, plus Manchester City changing the landscape, Lambert has taken on a really tough situation. I find it irritating that so many are willing to turn on him inside ten games. He's not a miracle worker - he will lose games, and he will make mistakes. We need to think differently or we'll end up churning through managers and eventually we'll see someone turfed out of Villa who then succeeds elsewhere.

Nobody is blaming Lambert for the legacy of what's been building for 3 years. But you have to question some of his man management, tactics and team selections and substitutions. Nobody is above constructive criticism.

I thought spouting shite was more of an issue !!!

i blame him for those players leaving, I blame him for the reasons why those players left and for the fact they saw better opportunities elsewhere, especially Downing

Randy,Please sort it out & quick,time is running out we are in freefall we have to smell the coffee before its too late. We all love the Club but we are now in the mire and have to admit it. The last time we started a season like this 43 years ago we went down to Division 3. The alarm bells are ringing!!......Hello

99% of everyone posting on here has said that warnock and hutton should never play for us again. to suggest that they are the answer is ludicrous. not just lambert but a majority of posters on this site, again. again something many on here have been calling for Dunne is injured, Ireland coming back from injury, conspiracy theory now? Seems to me lambert is dammed if he does and dammed if he doesn't. again, we needed players all over the pitch not just two or three and his signings have shown great potential, including lowton who looks a real player. What do you expect him to do? Buy players and then not play them. This s largely a new team who have played less than 12 games, they are not going to full fill the potential by not playing together.

I'm sticking by Lambert. Sure he's had a pretty bad start, but this time last year with McLeish we were actually unbeaten and sitting in the top half. It means nothing. I'm sure his quality will show through towards the end of the season. And unlike his predecessor, I'm fairly confident he'll pick up points against the 'bigger clubs'. There's no point changing managers again. We need stability, and thank god Randy appointed a young, ambitious manager like Lambert.

Did the global economy bounce back immediately from Black Tuesday or did it take a little while? Should Lambert be blamed for the last ten games of McLeish's reign which the latter was abused throughout each one of them? We'll get better if people don't get in the way and knock confidence by booing the manager and players for a result none of them could do much to alter.

But we hear this sort of thing every year don't we? Remember when Houllier lost 0-1 at home to Sunderland to a screamer in the 80th minute? We had ten men then too, but the sheer over-reaction at Villa Park and vitriol directed at Houllier made me want to curl up into the ground and die of embarrassment. It was just ridiculous. If Heskey hadn't missed a sitter and then got sent off how different it would have been... I'd argue that the same applies to McLeish to an extent because, as much as he wasn't the right man for the job, 99% of his own fans hurling abuse at him every week didn't exactly help matters did it? I'd even suggest that with a bit more rationality from fans over the past few seasons this thread maybe wouldn't even exist - who knows? All I'm saying is that Villa fans have this terrible habit of making issues into much much bigger issues, and this does not help. This pattern seems to be recurring annually at the moment and I think we all know it hasn't helped us make a lot of progress - I really don't want the same to happen this year as well! Please support and understand that football, as much as Sky and the rags that are in its pocket would love us to believe, is not based on short-termism, it is based on patience and in order to be eventually successful mistakes will be made. To be honest, we probably would not even be having this conversation if Joe Bennett hadn't have been so reckless which makes these sort of comments all the more ridiculous. I understand people who are concerned, but when the "this is the worst I've ever seen Villa" merchants start creeping in it just makes me wonder how mindless some people can get when a month ago Swansea was the supposed turning point of a new dawn. Let the manager, who sees the players every day and has played and managed in professional football for over two decades, get on with his job and support him for it. He has proven he is competent at his job everywhere he has been, let him display this competence at Villa or this club will just implode into the Championship and quite possibly financial ruin.

Because it's not the typical run of the mill kneejerk ultra-negative VT response.

How is it common sense exactly, this is our worst start in nearly 50 years, and it isn't even like we're not getting the rub of the green. We've been rubbish, Lambert has mostly bought a right load of old shite, and we're playing badly and getting the results that that bad play merits.

We need to stick by Lambert, it's the start of a very long journey to turn this club around but I still feel he i the man for the job. However, the current midfield is truely shocking; KEA aside, the rest which he has inherited are championship at best. Just think, a few seasons back we had Barry, Petrov, Young and Milner. WIth the current midfield no manager could do any better, they just arnt good enough - Delph, Ireland, Bannan, Albirghton, N'zogbia all need replacing. I hope Lerner releases some funds in January to allow Lambert to rebuild the midfield or we could be in trouble. A ball winner to partner KEA in the middle is essential. A quick word on his summer signings of Lowton and Bennett; I thought Lowton was one of the few plus points today and I think Bennett will come good. I suspect Westwood & Bowery will disapear into the sunset.

There is nothing to be positive about atm. This is the lowest eb we have ever sunk too in my 20 years of supporting us. The main reason for me is that two years ago we were in relegation trouble, but we knew our squad was much better than the results we were getting. Last year we nearly got relegated and had an horrendous manager and played the worst football I have seen us play. But this year we have a supposedly good manager and are still playing rubbish football and getting rubbish results. For reasons I cant explain, our good players are not performing. Gabby hasnt scored a PL goal in nearly a year, Albrighton has gone backwards, Zog hasnt shown us anything, Ireland isnt consistent enough and most of the new signings dont look great at all. Guzan is playing superbly, Vlaar and Benteke look good. Either way our team is abysmal, you look through the line-ups on matchdays and its embarassing. A mish-mash of Championship level players. I'm not going to wax lyrical about where were 3-4 years ago. Its irrelevant. We are here and it is now. What really concerns me is that there are 5-6 squads in this league than are weaker than ours and some of them are playing better and winning games. Lambert was getting Norwich to play way above their station last season, as have many other teams and many other managers. Three managers in a row for us have not been able to do this. What is wrong with our club? I have watched MOTD once this season. I couldnt give a shit about the other teams and seeing the goals anymore. This is what Villa being abysmal does to me. I watch our game, we usually lose and play terribly and thats it for the football for the weekend. Villa in the last 3 years have removed all the passion I have for this sport. It's even got so bad that relegation doesnt even scare me. It would almost be like putting us out of our misery. Will we get relegated? Probably not. However if we finish 17th so what? I just want to enjoy watching us play again. 3 wins in 28 makes me feel sick. Also, when did we last run out comfortable winners in a game? As in be 3-0 up with half an hour to go? The few wins we have had in the last couple of years always seem to be have a nervous last 10 minutes. Being a Villa fan eh?

Absolutely - what with his picking the team and not backing the manager that most of the fans wanted with roughly 20mil in the summer, what a joke!

Just drove past a pub on my way to Villa Park that has runruckyrun's avatar on it ... Guess I know where his local pub is now :-)

Left wing? He presents himself as a conservative who wants to see a smaller state and lower taxes, and says in another piece that his concern is that the tories will be out of office for a long time because of the self-defeating policies they are following; and that tribal loyalty shouldn't lead to being silent on this. Many other tories have similar concerns about what's happening, it seems. You seem to want to pigeon hole him as someone you can dismiss out of hand by pinning a label on him. Why not try addressing the arguments he puts forward? They're not especially left wing, if it helps. Or else your intervention looks like name-calling, and nothing more. Call him names by all means, but do try to include something with a little more substance. Like showing his stats are wrong, maybe, or explaining why his conclusions are flawed.

Were all in this together remember I predict a riot Probably a couple of months after those welfare/benefit cuts kick in when is it next year?