Wainy316 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I would be amazed if there were more than 1 or 2 % of tradesmen in the UK that declare ALL of their earnings to HMRC. Probably but it's absolutely pittance to what the corporations manage to keep from the tax man. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 1 hour ago, limpid said: It's a crime to fail to report a crime. So the only question is does their fraud constitute a crime? If it's usual behaviour then I'd suggest that it does. If it's occasional, it probably doesn't. True but how many Bankers are in prison compared to the people mentioned ? Crime is crime but I suspect the richer you are then the less chance you have of a) been investigated b ) Going to prison. It should be completely the other way around with the punishments a lot harsher. If you don't tell the HMRC about 15 k a year and then compare it to bankers who knowingly risked the pensions or investments of millons of people then yes, a crime is a crime as you say but ask a million people who from the 2 examples should be shot at dawn and I think I know the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 1 hour ago, limpid said: I don't understand these posts. They are examples of people stealing from YOU and yet you seem to accept it. I think 'accept' is the wrong term. I have a friend that works at the tax, I have a friend that is a dry liner. DL guy is clearly taking the system for a ride. Tax friend is too. They have too much work to get through at the tax office, so they are offered weekend over time. But they can't be paid over time. So they are given time and a half off in lieu. So my mate works a Saturday, which means that month there is a week where he doesn't have to turn up until Tuesday afternoon. So guess what, they ask him to work over time. It's like a strange mix of the films Ground Hog Day and Brazil. Dry Liner mate has tried to get work via me, but the system I work in is full on admin and cost consultant lead, with forms and procedures that mean you have to prove you have insurance and vat and everything before you get a sniff of payment. He doesn't get his cash work via me. I'm very lucky not to be anywhere near the sort of building site that will pay cash. If they are paying cash then they aren't doing all the paperwork, checking CS cards etc.. If that's the case, good luck with your insurance when it goes wrong. Should I report my one mate to my other mate? That would feel a bit shabby for some reason. Not absolutely clear why. Mates I guess, but then I've never 'snitched' on anyone and the real reason is probably right there, the connotation of 'snitch', 'grass'. I didn't report him when he had a back garden full of herbs either, come to think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted December 1, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 1, 2015 I understand what you're saying there. I don't necessarily agree that if cost of living was lower people would be more honest though. The point I was making however was that these examples of people I know are the "Britain First", close the borders, all foreigners are bad for the UK types yet they are effectively stealing from UK PLC by not declaring the vast majority of their earnings (and paying the applicable tax). The one I know (in law family member unfortunately) has taken it a step further by his tax credit application. He's short changing the public purse by £5-£10k a year and also wants some benefits to top up earnings because he's only declaring minimum wage. The post is more about the contradiction of some people being proud Britons and foreigners are bad / benefits 'scroungers are ruining the country... but are happy to cheat the system themselves. Bloody foreigners, coming over here, stealing our crimes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 1 hour ago, limpid said: It's a crime to fail to report a crime. So the only question is does their fraud constitute a crime? If it's usual behaviour then I'd suggest that it does. If it's occasional, it probably doesn't. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Loosely related, why are private lawyers allowed to be a thing? Where is the justice in if you can afford to hire someone with the gift of the gab you're more likely to get off with something? The facts of the case are still the facts no matter how some highly paid lawyer is able to twist it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Edit: 'I can say that again', yada yada. Double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 1, 2015 Moderator Share Posted December 1, 2015 I've pondered that too Wainy. I suppose what you're paying for is not so much someone's ability to spin or twist, because as you say the facts don't change. What you're paying for is the person skilled at finding precedents where other people in your position got off. Or poking holes in the 'facts' being laid out by the other side. Facts are only facts after they are established. Up until that point it can often be little more than your word against mine. You're also paying for the person who won't miss salient points in your own defence that could help. As with most things in life, you get what you pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: I didn't report him when he had a back garden full of herbs either, come to think of it. Give it some thyme then tell the propolis, not the amateur one's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted December 1, 2015 Administrator Share Posted December 1, 2015 1 hour ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: True but how many Bankers are in prison compared to the people mentioned ? Crime is crime but I suspect the richer you are then the less chance you have of a) been investigated b ) Going to prison. It should be completely the other way around with the punishments a lot harsher. If you don't tell the HMRC about 15 k a year and then compare it to bankers who knowingly risked the pensions or investments of millons of people then yes, a crime is a crime as you say but ask a million people who from the 2 examples should be shot at dawn and I think I know the answer. What you describe is a civil offence, not a crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 1 hour ago, limpid said: What you describe is a civil offence, not a crime. I thought fraud was criminal ? My mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted December 1, 2015 Administrator Share Posted December 1, 2015 2 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: I thought fraud was criminal ? My mistake. Fraud is usually civil. It has to be significant either in terms of scale or regularity to be criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted December 1, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) So Apple are removing the 3.5mm socket from their next phones, forcing you to either buy new headphones or spend what will most likely be £30-50 on an adapter to use your old headphones? Apple are so anti-consumer, and this pisses me off. Even though it shouldn't because I've never bought their stuff and never will! The fact people completely lap it up is so annoying. I despise them as a business. Edited December 1, 2015 by PieFacE 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysAVFC Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 14 minutes ago, PieFacE said: So Apple are removing the 3.5mm socket from their next phones, forcing you to either buy new headphones or spend what will most likely be £30-50 on an adapter to use your old headphones? Apple are so anti-consumer, and this pisses me off. Even though it shouldn't because I've never bought their stuff and never will! The fact people completely lap it up is so annoying. I despise them as a business. With the increase in popularity of Bluetooth headphones and speakers combined with problems as a result of crap getting in the socket it's not really a surprise though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BOF Posted December 1, 2015 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted December 1, 2015 What pisses me off is that despite Apple continuously being so anti-consumer they've still got so many consumers. Is there a corporate equivalent to Stockholm Syndrome? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 14 minutes ago, BOF said: What pisses me off is that despite Apple continuously being so anti-consumer they've still got so many consumers. Is there a corporate equivalent to Stockholm Syndrome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 4 hours ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: True but how many Bankers are in prison compared to the people mentioned ? Crime is crime but I suspect the richer you are then the less chance you have of a) been investigated b ) Going to prison. It should be completely the other way around with the punishments a lot harsher. If you don't tell the HMRC about 15 k a year and then compare it to bankers who knowingly risked the pensions or investments of millons of people then yes, a crime is a crime as you say but ask a million people who from the 2 examples should be shot at dawn and I think I know the answer. is the answer .. poor people ... it's win win , we provide work for undertakers and also reduce the benefit bill drastically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Won't the new Apple phone just come with new headphones though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted December 1, 2015 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted December 1, 2015 1 hour ago, PieFacE said: So Apple are removing the 3.5mm socket from their next phones, forcing you to either buy new headphones or spend what will most likely be £30-50 on an adapter to use your old headphones? Apple are so anti-consumer, and this pisses me off. Even though it shouldn't because I've never bought their stuff and never will! The fact people completely lap it up is so annoying. I despise them as a business. This is kind of bizarre, and so excellent. There's a rumour on the internet that a phone made by a company you don't like, a company you have never owned or bought any stuff from, just might, maybe, use a different type of /no connector at all for the earphones that go with it, and you've got really annoyed by it. and bumped up your hate another level. All as a consequence of someone writing a blog with a rumour on it. That is a definite TTPYOTS of the title. Bravo. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 1, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 1, 2015 Considering the majority of the Dre Beats range use a 3.5mm jack, and Apple own them, it would seem a bit silly of them to remove that compatibility with their own devices, even if they can charge for an adapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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