PaulC Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) 35 minutes ago, TRO said: I think Managers ( Managers who are allowed to manage and buy their own players within reason) are the catalyst to every successful Football club. You can talk about many other things, but they are the ones that make it happen.....not many Great Owners and poor managers make a club successful You can reel them out : Saunders Clough Ferguson Mourinho Wenger Kendall Robson Stein Busby Revie Greenwood And the list goes on, but the one thing they need to go alongside their undoubted talent and workable funds is TIME All these guys needed time to get their philosophies over to the players and the ones they couldn't, were replaced by ones they could. I do not blame Tim Sherwood in the same vein as some fans do on here and I am not equally saying he would have been the answer either to the long term....but and its a big but for the task that is required at our football club, he never had enough time ( I am not saying that i would have kept him on either as the circumstances dictated). I do not know whether Remi is the right man and I do believe even if he is, he hasn't enough time to fix it under the circumstances.....its like trying to repair a hole in a boat on the high seas in the middle of a storm. Right now Remi must have webbed feet putting out all the fires. If we do go down and I can't see anything else, I think we will come straight back 1/2 seasons because we need to strip the whole thing back to basics. I do believe Tim Sherwood and Remi Garde know what was/is wrong.....but there have been too many years of demise before them to fix this as quick as we would want. I agree with all that. I think Sherwood was the the right man for the job last season to keep us in the division, not sure he was the long term answer but when you have the rug pulled from under you with the sale of our two best players plus Cleverley, this season was always going to be tough. Reme Garde is a shot in the dark really , nobody knows whether he has what it takes to turn the club around and keep us up, or even whether he will want to stick around when the going gets tough. He didn't at Lyon and thats my worry about him long-term. Edited November 25, 2015 by PaulC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 34 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: there are 3 teams worse than us ..I'm looking at you , Bournemouth ,Norwich and Sunderland ..with a hint of Newcastle . Tony, I agree with your post except this bit. I think its wishful thinking that we have any teams right now in the Prem, worse than us.....depending on how you interpret worse. I may be wrong but in my view, some fans only look at the technical ability when making the statements that we are good enough. There are many attributes required to make a successful team and Technical ability as important as it is is just one.....We are lacking in so many of the others I'm not suggesting we play like Wimbledon of old.....but I could be tempted and should we adopt any of their attributes even a watered down version, we would have more points. I see not one department in our team attack, Midfield or defence that suggest to me we have a chance....Only unseen divine intervention or a miracle in terms of players attitudes to muster a fighting spirit will give us any hope. Paradoxically in my mind we have more chance against the better teams who let you play, due to the fact that technically they fancy their chances......when we come up against technically lesser teams who get in your face ,close you down and deny you space to play.....We are stuffed. Hence we are now stuffed against either of the 2 types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Of course the players are going to look really really crap when they have absolutely no confidence and for much of the season have been playing with seemingly no tactical shape whatsoever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 11 minutes ago, PaulC said: I agree with all that. I think Sherwood was the the right man for the job last season to keep us in the division, not sure he was the long term answer but when you have the rug pulled from under you with the sale of our two best players plus Cleverley, this season was always going to be tough. Reme Garde is a shot in the dark really , nobody knows whether he has what it takes to turn the club around and keep us up, or even whether he will want to stick around when the going gets tough. He didn't at Lyon and thats my worry about him long-term. Paul, I have a bit of that in me too. I have no reason to doubt Remi as I have no reason to think he can fix it......I just happen to think this demise we have is far bigger than anyone can imagine. I don't think Remi will have the will to hang around in the same manner Paul Lambert did.....Its all well and good thinking it is noble not to quit, but if you know in your heart, you can't fix it, why carry on cheating on folk unless its just a self centered approach to compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted November 25, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted November 25, 2015 Remi has changed us already , we are a different side to Sherwood's pick it and hope mentality Were 7 points behind other teams who are just as crap and they have to get 30 more points to stay up, can they? Who knows but now is not the time for giving up , there is still hope and we should all man up and get on it with , one game at a time and give everything we have to get a result. UTV , keep the faith . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 6 minutes ago, tinker said: Remi has changed us already , we are a different side to Sherwood's pick it and hope mentality Were 7 points behind other teams who are just as crap and they have to get 30 more points to stay up, can they? Who knows but now is not the time for giving up , there is still hope and we should all man up and get on it with , one game at a time and give everything we have to get a result. UTV , keep the faith . Everton was worst performance of season by far, wouldnt give him much credit yet after that game 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godders Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I thought we kept our shape quite well for the first 15 mins of the Everton game. More so than we ever did under Sherwood. The heads dropped once the first goal went in. That to me suggests the biggest problem at the moment is confidence. Get that sorted and I think this team will look a million times better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 "Keeping our shape" for one 6th of the game is a major plus now... :-o 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 he never said major plus. Things are crummy right now, but there are positive signals - it'll take time - admittedly a commodity we are rather lacking in- that we will improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 57 minutes ago, Godders said: I thought we kept our shape quite well for the first 15 mins of the Everton game. More so than we ever did under Sherwood. The heads dropped once the first goal went in. That to me suggests the biggest problem at the moment is confidence. Get that sorted and I think this team will look a million times better. I though we were all over the shop from the 1st whistle, by far and away the worst performance this season. You could tell Everton were going to give us a hiding after 5 mins 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 2 hours ago, Mantis said: Of course the players are going to look really really crap when they have absolutely no confidence and for much of the season have been playing with seemingly no tactical shape whatsoever. We still, after season after season, manager after manager, system after system, tactic after tactic, excuse after excuse, are finding ways to divert the blame away from the players. They are the ones who take the field. They are the ones who give the ball away needlessly time and time again. They are the ones who make individual error after individual error. They are the ones who don't give their all nor fight 100% for the cause. They are the ones who are out on the piss at the weekend. The manager has a role to play, and yes, you would have to say that managers have underperformed for whatever reason. But, when are we going to wake up as a fan base and start to question why, the players don take the lead when the chips are down, why don't they organise themselves or why don't they instill some belief in one another. I've worked under some dreadful managers. You don't down tools, and point the finger at him or her. If you do that says all you need to know about yourself. People with anything about them, will stand and be counted. Take the bull by the horns and deliver despite conditions that are not ideal. Too easily footballers are protected and it's got to the stage where I find it all a bit embarrassing tbh. We're going down, and not one of them, not a single one is standing up and taking responsibility. And no I don't mean coming out and speaking in a positive manner in the media. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 1 minute ago, Woodytom said: We still, after season after season, manager after manager, system after system, tactic after tactic, excuse after excuse, are finding ways to divert the blame away from the players. They are the ones who take the field. They are the ones who give the ball away needlessly time and time again. They are the ones who make individual error after individual error. They are the ones who don't give their all nor fight 100% for the cause. They are the ones who are out on the piss at the weekend. The manager has a role to play, and yes, you would have to say that managers have underperformed for whatever reason. But, when are we going to wake up as a fan base and start to question why, the players don take the lead when the chips are down, why don't they organise themselves or why don't they instill some belief in one another. I've worked under some dreadful managers. You don't down tools, and point the finger at him or her. If you do that says all you need to know about yourself. People with anything about them, will stand and be counted. Take the bull by the horns and deliver despite conditions that are not ideal. Too easily footballers are protected and it's got to the stage where I find it all a bit embarrassing tbh. We're going down, and not one of them, not a single one is standing up and taking responsibility. And no I don't mean coming out and speaking in a positive manner in the media. I'm not diverting blame from the players - they're definitely to blame, I just don't rate them as lowly as you do and don't think they're the only ones to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 5 minutes ago, Mantis said: I'm not diverting blame from the players - they're definitely to blame, I just don't rate them as lowly as you do and don't think they're the only ones to blame. I don't think they are the only ones to blame. The reason I rate them so lowly is because they show us zero. They NEVER deliver on a consistent basis. They are full of fear. And they give off a 'feel sorry for us vibe'. Sorry, but I'm sick of their lives being made easier by us with our constant mislead support and encouragement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) 2 hours ago, Woodytom said: We still, after season after season, manager after manager, system after system, tactic after tactic, excuse after excuse, are finding ways to divert the blame away from the players. They are the ones who take the field. They are the ones who give the ball away needlessly time and time again. They are the ones who make individual error after individual error. They are the ones who don't give their all nor fight 100% for the cause. They are the ones who are out on the piss at the weekend. The manager has a role to play, and yes, you would have to say that managers have underperformed for whatever reason. But, when are we going to wake up as a fan base and start to question why, the players don take the lead when the chips are down, why don't they organise themselves or why don't they instill some belief in one another. I've worked under some dreadful managers. You don't down tools, and point the finger at him or her. If you do that says all you need to know about yourself. People with anything about them, will stand and be counted. Take the bull by the horns and deliver despite conditions that are not ideal. Too easily footballers are protected and it's got to the stage where I find it all a bit embarrassing tbh. We're going down, and not one of them, not a single one is standing up and taking responsibility. And no I don't mean coming out and speaking in a positive manner in the media. FFS... look at the zero achievement prima-donna we appointed captain. What would you expect. Senior leadership in the squad is provided by Gabby/Hutton/Idiot/Lescott? I can only imagine what the new signings are thinking. If the players won't stand up, then it's up to the manager to knock sense/shape into them. Sherwood was a clown, Remi has looked promising thus far. Not a shot at you woody... just more of a general venting. Edited November 25, 2015 by villakram Zatman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 3 minutes ago, villakram said: If the players won't stand up, then it's up to the manager to knock sense/shape into them. My point is that it works both ways. I just know that modern day footballers will be well aware that if they don't perform the manager gets it in the neck. I just know that if this team goes down then most folk will look elsewhere for blame where as after 38 games of football, and 2 managers at least it will be largely down to the players as to why we have gone down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted November 25, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted November 25, 2015 The players and the manager are what we have and that isn't going to change that much before the end of the season. What can change is their confidence, the organization and their fitness. We have to play with the hand we have, why we have the hand is down to poor leadership from the very top. Its not the players fault or the present managers fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 1 hour ago, villakram said: FFS... look at the zero achievement prima-donna we appointed captain. What would you expect. Senior leadership in the squad is provided by Gabby/Hutton/Given/Lescott? I can only imagine what the new signings are thinking. If the players won't stand up, then it's up to the manager to knock sense/shape into them. Sherwood was a clown, Remi has looked promising thus far. Not a shot at you woody... just more of a general venting. blaming a player that isnt even at the club anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 1 hour ago, Zatman said: blaming a player that isnt even at the club anymore err... sshhhh, you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 We're probably going to need something like this to stay up now.... Win v Watford 4 points v Newcastle 4 points v Norwich 4 points from home games v Spurs and Everton At least a point at home to West Ham. 4 points from Palace-Leicester home games in January 4 points from Watford and Southampton games in April 3 points at home to Bournemouth. 4 points from Swansea, WBA and Stoke games. That would get us to 36 points. Plenty of games I've written off e.g. the usual Manchester away games as we lose those season in season out. You never know we might get something at home to Liverpool or Chelsea. Basically though those are the core fixtures above we need to be getting points out of and a hell of a lot of pressure on us to win the 6 points with regularity. I've actually factored in an away defeat to Sunderland in that as I think despite our amazing record up there in recent times, it's got a grind out Big Sam 1-0 written all over it. Loads of pressure there but we need 30 + points from somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Were getting nowhere near that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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