Your Thoughts On Summer 2015 Transfer Window

[Marka Ragnos]

If the players are to blame, then the buck still stops with Sherwood as he bought them and claims he had final say in all the transfers

Again, too simple. The buck won't follow Tim. When Sherwood goes, we'll still need to cope with these players. I'm not persuaded they're good enough.

[Marka Ragnos]

What a load of sh1te.

In terms of the players

Gana has generally been very good and hit the ground running, Veretout seems to be settling, and Ayew - the jury's out on but could come good.

Idiotic managerial decisions are the problem

I don't think it's that simple. It never was, either, not even with Lambert. 

Nope it definitely is.

To quote you, commenting on me, "I wish I had your optimism." 

Edited October 12, 2015 by Plastic Man

[Spoony]

What a load of sh1te.

In terms of the players

Gana has generally been very good and hit the ground running, Veretout seems to be settling, and Ayew - the jury's out on but could come good.

Idiotic managerial decisions are the problem

I don't think it's that simple. It never was, either, not even with Lambert. 

Nope it definitely is.

To quote you, commenting on me, "I wish I had your optimism." 

I agree I don't think its that simple either otherwise this wouldn't happen time and time and time again.

[StefanAVFC]

I think it's simple enough in the sense that as soon as we have a new guy in, we won't see the same issues as we do under Tim.

The bloke is that inept.

[Marka Ragnos]

I think it's simple enough in the sense that as soon as we have a new guy in, we won't see the same issues as we do under Tim.

The bloke is that inept.

What time is it in England? Only a true Villa fan would be up at 2 a.m. worrying about the next manager! 

In any case, I think we'll soon see what happens when the Sherwood Effect is reduced on AVFC.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Plastic Man

[StefanAVFC]

2:30am. It's Monday Night Football!

[Marka Ragnos]

2:30am. It's Monday Night Football!

Ahhhhhhhhhh. I heard there were a few of you American football nuts overseas, but I thought it was only a rumor. For what it's worth, I used to participate in an annual year-long form of Midwestern mental torture called Supporting the Cleveland Browns, but they broke me in the end. 

Edited October 13, 2015 by Plastic Man

[TrinityRoadSteps]

2:30am. It's Monday Night Football!

Ahhhhhhhhhh. I heard there were a few of you American football nuts overseas, but I thought it was only a rumor. For what it's worth, I used to participate in an annual year-long form of Midwestern mental torture called Supporting the Cleveland Browns, but they broke me in the end. 

I'm another one of those American Football nuts. Although I am in The States on holiday at the moment 

[Marka Ragnos]

2:30am. It's Monday Night Football!

Ahhhhhhhhhh. I heard there were a few of you American football nuts overseas, but I thought it was only a rumor. For what it's worth, I used to participate in an annual year-long form of Midwestern mental torture called Supporting the Cleveland Browns, but they broke me in the end. 

I'm another one of those American Football nuts. Although I am in The States on holiday at the moment 

I don't understand you people. You're like folks from Paris come to the USA to eat Wonder Bread. I don't get it!  

 

[sexbelowsound]

I'm not sure why the money ball approach keeps getting brought up. That approach wasn't really about resale value, it was about replacing stats for stats which we didn't do.

If we had brought in 3 strikers who in total equaled the same amount of goals that Benteke did and within our transfer budget then I guess you could say we did that but the whole money ball approach really only works as a concept for baseball IMO.

Unless someone has written a football version then it just doesn't work as a concept for this sport.

[Stevo985]

If the players are to blame, then the buck still stops with Sherwood as he bought them and claims he had final say in all the transfers

Again, too simple. The buck won't follow Tim. When Sherwood goes, we'll still need to cope with these players. I'm not persuaded they're good enough.

I am.

They're good enough to stay up. Even from here. They just need to be managed effectively.

I think Sherwood actually had a good transfer window. He just doesn't know how to manage a football team.

I was just saying that IF the players he bought are crap, then he's still the one to blame.

[bobzy]

I'm not sure why the money ball approach keeps getting brought up. That approach wasn't really about resale value, it was about replacing stats for stats which we didn't do.

If we had brought in 3 strikers who in total equaled the same amount of goals that Benteke did and within our transfer budget then I guess you could say we did that but the whole money ball approach really only works as a concept for baseball IMO.

Unless someone has written a football version then it just doesn't work as a concept for this sport.

I thought the whole concept was about utilising statistics to bring in players who represent good value for money?  Surely this would ring true in any sport which chooses to use it?

[Spoony]

2:30am. It's Monday Night Football!

Ahhhhhhhhhh. I heard there were a few of you American football nuts overseas, but I thought it was only a rumor. For what it's worth, I used to participate in an annual year-long form of Midwestern mental torture called Supporting the Cleveland Browns, but they broke me in the end. 

I'm another one of those American Football nuts. Although I am in The States on holiday at the moment 

I don't understand you people. You're like folks from Paris come to the USA to eat Wonder Bread. I don't get it!  

 

Also guilty. I lived in Texas for a year so a big Longhorns fan and also support Seahawks from a trip there. 1 year later and they won the Superbowl and it was a wonderful moment of "wow not ALL of the teams and countries I support will be shit!"

[Adbo9]

my opinion is this: I don't care who we sign, how much we spend or whether a manager has a good window........... its all irrelevant if we don't get the points on the pitch

So for that, my opinion is currently that the window was a resounding failure............. whether it stays that way im not so sure.... YET

Personally, We spent really big on players in certain positions where we could maybe have spent better in other areas.   Weve lost a Top Class Striker and replaced him with two unproven elements.  One a big lump with a couple of goals in his locker, and the other a wide striker who I don't think will make the grade, albeit hell be neat and tidy.   We needed a left back, but I don't buy into this Amavi hype, hes got a decent cross on him, but hes not a massive upgrade on whats gone before him, Richards I like, but hes not exactly sorted our back line out, and Lescott was pointless.  Crespo, cant give an opinion yet and Gana looks decent, albeit his distribution is below par.  Veretout, currently nowhere near fit enough, which is a major worry.  Adama Traore, looks exciting, but I always worry about players like this - Do Barcelona get rid of world class prospects as were led to believe.  I read somewhere that the coaches at Barca were pulling their hair out as he never looks to pass or bring team mates into the game, just runs at people - if hes uncoachable at that club, then weve got **** all chance.........

 

They may improve, but im not too sure at all.............. workrate and effort is there, quality isn't - hence the league position

 

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

Not many of us saw anything of these players before they pulled on a shirt for us. I'm not convinced they are all that good. We've seen flashes from one or two of them, but I've not been overly impressed so far. 

The manager is mainly at fault for his bizarre decision, but the players don't get off let off the hook from this mess. Some of the piss poor mistakes that they've been making is school boy stuff and they should be ashamed.

I also hate it when people try to remove them from any blame for the FA cup final debacle. If they couldn't get motivated for the biggest game they'll ever play in their career (most of them probably won't get near a final again) then they need to take a long hard look at themselves. 

[Stevo985]

I'm not sure why the money ball approach keeps getting brought up. That approach wasn't really about resale value, it was about replacing stats for stats which we didn't do.

If we had brought in 3 strikers who in total equaled the same amount of goals that Benteke did and within our transfer budget then I guess you could say we did that but the whole money ball approach really only works as a concept for baseball IMO.

Unless someone has written a football version then it just doesn't work as a concept for this sport.

I thought the whole concept was about utilising statistics to bring in players who represent good value for money?  Surely this would ring true in any sport which chooses to use it?

Yep pretty much.

It's about getting players in cheap who contribute as much as more expensive players.
I guess a good example would be a club buying a current Jamie Vardy instead of a current Wayne Rooney. Rooney would cost you a shit load and Vardy wouldn't. But Vardy would be the better player at the moment.

 

That's a crude example off the top of my head.
The problem with football is it's so hard to use statistics as effectively as a sport like baseball.

The Benteke comparison would be if we used the 32.5 million to buy 3 or 4 cheaper players who contributed to the team, in total, more than benteke did. That doesn't necessarily mean just goals. You'd then raise th evalue of those players, sell them and repeat.

It's obviously very difficult to apply in reality.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Stevo985

[KHV]

Not many of us saw anything of these players before they pulled on a shirt for us. I'm not convinced they are all that good. We've seen flashes from one or two of them, but I've not been overly impressed so far. 

The manager is mainly at fault for his bizarre decision, but the players don't get off let off the hook from this mess. Some of the piss poor mistakes that they've been making is school boy stuff and they should be ashamed.

I also hate it when people try to remove them from any blame for the FA cup final debacle. If they couldn't get motivated for the biggest game they'll ever play in their career (most of them probably won't get near a final again) then they need to take a long hard look at themselves. 

The club was just looking for the next Benteke that could be sold on for a huge profit, the problem with buying in so many people from substandard leagues abroad is that it takes time for them to get use to the premier league (if they ever do), and there is also the fact they have to settle into a new country and enviroment which takes time. Bringing in so many untried and untested players was a huge gamble which doesn't look like paying off anytime soon

[sexbelowsound]

I'm not sure why the money ball approach keeps getting brought up. That approach wasn't really about resale value, it was about replacing stats for stats which we didn't do.

If we had brought in 3 strikers who in total equaled the same amount of goals that Benteke did and within our transfer budget then I guess you could say we did that but the whole money ball approach really only works as a concept for baseball IMO.

Unless someone has written a football version then it just doesn't work as a concept for this sport.

I thought the whole concept was about utilising statistics to bring in players who represent good value for money?  Surely this would ring true in any sport which chooses to use it?

Yep pretty much.

It's about getting players in cheap who contribute as much as more expensive players.
I guess a good example would be a club buying a current Jamie Vardy instead of a current Wayne Rooney. Rooney would cost you a shit load and Vardy wouldn't. But Vardy would be the better player at the moment.

 

That's a crude example off the top of my head.
The problem with football is it's so hard to use statistics as effectively as a sport like baseball.

The Benteke comparison would be if we used the 32.5 million to buy 3 or 4 cheaper players who contributed to the team, in total, more than benteke did. That doesn't necessarily mean just goals. You'd then raise th evalue of those players, sell them and repeat.

It's obviously very difficult to apply in reality.

Which was my point. Money ball was based on statistics to find value in players that were currently being overlooked based on old principles of scouting and reading of stats, some which even came down to the physical appearance of a player or how his girlfriend looked. We didn't buy underrated players, we bought players who may or may not grow into quality players when they reach their prime.

Essentially they (The Oakland A's) were looking to recreate the on base percent that they had lost when their 3 key players left by bringing in players who weren't considered to be as well rounded but had the same potential to get on base and thus score runs that the departing players had. They would sign players that were considered to be defective by other clubs as well, maybe because they threw funny. Again, we didn't sign defective or underrated players. If we had bought in 3 strikers who between them scored the same amount of goals as Benteke on average through out their career, who cost less and were all going to play then yes, that could be considered a money ball approach, but we didn't.

In a loose sense buying lots of potential instead of signing ready made stars could be considered a money ball approach but it really isn't. It was never about potential i don't believe, it was about the here and now. 

I'm still reading the book though so if i'm wrong when I get to the end of it i'll hold my hands up but i'm pretty sure it was a concept for baseball and not really applicable to any other sports in its truest form.

Edited October 15, 2015 by sexbelowsound

[Stevo985]

I think the concept is applicable to anything.

The concept of players being underrated compared to other, more expensive options is there to be exploited.

It's the method of how it's applied that isn't as applicable in football. You can't base it all around stats.

A player getting on base in baseball is great because it's always the same player facing pitches. So chances are he'll match that average over a period of time. So you can say if you buy that player for cheap, you'll get that average.

But in football, a player getting 20 assists a season might look like a great player to pick up for cheap. But him getting so many assists could be based on the team he has around him. Putting him in a different team might not yield the same results.

Basically, there are so many more factors to consider in football, it makes the application of the concept much more difficult. Baseball is much more based on individual performances that are directly comparable in every game because there are less variables.

[sne]

Was banging on all summer that we really needed to sign a RB, sadly we didn't.

Other than that I still feel we had a good window.

A proper manager should be able to build a functioning midfield and even attack with the squad we now have.

Either use Gestede and play to his one strenght (Don't think we have the type of wide players to do that)

Or preferably use Ayew (or Kozak or even Adama) up front and play a mobile front line with Grealish, Gil & Adama, maybe not all at the same time.

Let the rest of the midfield (Gana and Sanchez for example) concentrate on neutralizing the opponents