The Tim Sherwood Thread

[Guest av1]

So is Tim going to be the first manager to talk himself into a job, then talk himself out of it 6 months later?

Was always on the cards wasn't it.

If this guy ever manages in the Premier League again i'll be staggered. 

Just the sort of bloke i could see rocking up at small heath at some point. Maybe take Robbie Savage as his assistant. What a dream team they would make.

Edited October 13, 2015 by av1

[Guest av1]

Tim has all but told us there is no rhyme or reason to his strategy towards picking a team other than whether it happened to get a result and he'll chop and . change until it happens to work. I don't want that level of 'expertise' at the club because it will only ever be a matter of time before he loses his magic formula again. It means every decision he makes, down to substitutions, is pure guesswork.

 

So irrespective of the next 2 or 5 or 10 results I want him gone.

 

That article should have been Manager on Monday, Job Hunt on Tuesday.

 

Exactly. Let's just say we get a result at Chelsea. Does that mean in Tim's mind that he will have found the formula? Does it matter who the opposition are? Will he be sticking to the same plan at Old Trafford as the one employed for Norwich at home?

In any given sport containing professional athletes, any team can beat another on any given day, so to my mind getting a result at the Bridge does not, or should not buy Tim any longer at the club. 

Whether or not we can pick up a few wins over the next few weeks is anyones guess, what I am sure of however, is if we do, it will be in spite of Tim, not because of him.

 

[tylerreznik]

I think the crux of the issue with Tactics Tim, he doesn't know his best team, he doesn't know what formation we should play, he doesn't know which tactics to employ.  He's just throwing darts and hoping that telling the boys to go there and play 'attacking' football is enough....  It's not that easy champ....

Sadly the game has become way more 'professional' in recent years, other managers spend time actually analysing opponents, come clubs have teams of analysts devoted to the task, other managers have a very clear idea of how to set up a team formation wise, yet maintain a fairly consistent style of play, other managers are able to watch a match and make changes on the run.  Some managers are even good enough to work with players they didn't sign, or don't really rate and yet still produce a team capable of playing football and winning matches.  Tim Sherwood is not a football manager, never was and clearly is never going to be.

For gods sake, i know the best 15 as do most fans, i'm also smart enough to understand and appreciate the best (or most suited) 11 for Sunderland at home is going to be different to best 11 that you'd line up against Chelsea away, Tactics Tim hasn't worked this out yet, that why we have a squad of players and substitutes bench buddy.

If you translate what this clown is saying in his statements, he has basically publicly come out and said I don't know what I'm doing.  I don't know how to pick a team, I don't know how to conduct pre season training (doesn't know who his best players are, players not fit enough), I don't know how to conduct day to day training (players not fit enough), I don't know how to research opponents, I don't know how I can communicate tactical changes to my team during a match.

This baffoon is not going to turn anything around, that has become very very obvious, at best he is going to jag a few wins here and there through blind luck, and to be honest we really need to rely on opponents in that regard.

 

Edited October 13, 2015 by tylerreznik
spelling

[rubberman]

Top rant.

[GeordieVillan]

Still surprised by the general sentiment on here. I think this is partly because many of us gave the benefit of the doubt to Lambert for so long, and now we've had our fingers burnt we don't want it to happen again.

My view is still that I would love 4 points from the next 2 games, and for Tim to then turn it around. I don't think its impossible that will happen, but still unlikely. As things stand, he might as well go out all guns blazing and play our attacking players in the next couple of games.

However, two more defeats in the next couple of games, and I suspect by then we will be ready for a change of manager. Alot will also depend on results of the teams around us - as soon as we start to be cut further adrift, I think the trigger will be pulled. If for example, we lose to Chelsea and the teams above us win, then we will be 7 points adrift, and that is massive. I think the board will be concerned that leaving it one more week could then see us cut 10 points adrift, and that is incredibly daunting even at this stage of the season.

 

 

I don't think any sane person wants anything but 2 wins from the next 2. In which case he will have absolutely earned his stay of execution by proving everyone wrong to a degree.

 

Disagree with you there. I just listened to the astonvillareview podcast and the sentiment there (and from alot on here) is that it would be better if we lost the next couple of games just to make sure we get rid of Sherwood. Given our position, and the fact this is the first time we actually seem to have some structure at the club since MON (regardless of how the manager is doing) - thats what I'm finding surprising.

I have no idea what is going behind the scenes and whether Sherwood is trying to spin his side of the story or whether its just media speculation. Most of the criticism (other than results) seems to be his post match interviews - to be honest, I still much prefer these to anything which has been served up by Lambert, McLeish, Houllier - basically anyone since MON. Most of his comments sum up exactly what I thought of the game, although obviously he doesn't say that he's made poor team selections of poor subs.

 

Edited October 13, 2015 by GeordieVillan

[TRO]

I think the crux of the issue with Tactics Tim, he doesn't know his best team, he doesn't know what formation we should play, he doesn't know which tactics to employ.  He's just throwing darts and hoping that telling the boys to go there and play 'attacking' football is enough....  It's not that easy champ....

Sadly the game has become way more 'professional' in recent years, other managers spend time actually analysing opponents, come clubs have teams of analysts devoted to the task, other managers have a very clear idea of how to set up a team formation wise, yet maintain a fairly consistent style of play, other managers are able to watch a match and make changes on the run.  Some managers are even good enough to work with players they didn't sign, or don't really rate and yet still produce a team capable of playing football and winning matches.  Tim Sherwood is not a football manager, never was and clearly is never going to be.

For gods sake, i know the best 15 as do most fans, i'm also smart enough to understand and appreciate the best (or most suited) 11 for Sunderland at home is going to be different to best 11 that you'd line up against Chelsea away, Tactics Tim hasn't worked this out yet, that why we have a squad of players and substitutes bench buddy.

If you translate what this clown is saying in his statements, he has basically publicly come out and said I don't know what I'm doing.  I don't know how to pick a team, I don't know how to conduct pre season training (doesn't know who his best players are, players not fit enough), I don't know how to conduct day to day training (players not fit enough), I don't know how to research opponents, I don't know how I can communicate tactical changes to my team during a match.

This baffoon is not going to turn anything around, that has become very very obvious, at best he is going to jag a few wins here and there through blind luck, and to be honest we really need to rely on opponents in that regard.

 

                         I am not in a position to argue with you, so I accept your points with one exception......I don't know what our best team is and I will admit it.

                         I am genuinely interested ( it is not a loaded question) what would YOUR best 11 be against Swansea (home) and Chelsea (away)and what would be your reasons for the difference.

[TRO]

I think the crux of the issue with Tactics Tim, he doesn't know his best team, he doesn't know what formation we should play, he doesn't know which tactics to employ.  He's just throwing darts and hoping that telling the boys to go there and play 'attacking' football is enough....  It's not that easy champ....

Sadly the game has become way more 'professional' in recent years, other managers spend time actually analysing opponents, come clubs have teams of analysts devoted to the task, other managers have a very clear idea of how to set up a team formation wise, yet maintain a fairly consistent style of play, other managers are able to watch a match and make changes on the run.  Some managers are even good enough to work with players they didn't sign, or don't really rate and yet still produce a team capable of playing football and winning matches.  Tim Sherwood is not a football manager, never was and clearly is never going to be.

For gods sake, i know the best 15 as do most fans, i'm also smart enough to understand and appreciate the best (or most suited) 11 for Sunderland at home is going to be different to best 11 that you'd line up against Chelsea away, Tactics Tim hasn't worked this out yet, that why we have a squad of players and substitutes bench buddy.

If you translate what this clown is saying in his statements, he has basically publicly come out and said I don't know what I'm doing.  I don't know how to pick a team, I don't know how to conduct pre season training (doesn't know who his best players are, players not fit enough), I don't know how to conduct day to day training (players not fit enough), I don't know how to research opponents, I don't know how I can communicate tactical changes to my team during a match.

This baffoon is not going to turn anything around, that has become very very obvious, at best he is going to jag a few wins here and there through blind luck, and to be honest we really need to rely on opponents in that regard.

 

                         I am not in a position to argue with you, so I accept your points with one exception......I don't know what our best team is and I will admit it, some other fans could be the same.

                         I am genuinely interested ( it is not a loaded question) what would YOUR best 11 be against Swansea (home) and Chelsea (away)and what would be your reasons for the difference.

[GeordieVillan]

Tim has all but told us there is no rhyme or reason to his strategy towards picking a team other than whether it happened to get a result and he'll chop and change until it happens to work. I don't want that level of 'expertise' at the club because it will only ever be a matter of time before he loses his magic formula again. It means every decision he makes, down to substitutions, is pure guesswork.

 

So irrespective of the next 2 or 5 or 10 results I want him gone.

 

I think far too much has been made of his recent interviews and this has been extrapolated into Tim throwing darts at the squad list and picking his starting line up based on that. I think he was trying to get across that he is trying to find the right formation, blend, combination of players etc. and this has been blown totally out of proportion.

As for your second comment - if we won, for example, 3 of the next 5 games, which isn't impossible (albeit unlikely given what we have seen so far), and we climbed up to mid-table and the players start to exude confidence and we suddenly click - you still want him gone? If we manage to win the next 5 games - you still want him gone? Or the next 10 games, you still want him gone? 

I don't see what he has done to deserve THAT. In no way has he burnt his bridges with me. He's made some very questionable decisions, we are on a very poor run, I'm very disappointed that what I thought might be a very good season for us looks like it might be another struggle, but I don't see why he shouldn't be given the opportunity to turn it around if results pick up.

For the avoidance of doubt, defeat in the next 2 games will most probably be enough for me to say enough is enough, but I'm not there yet.

Edited October 13, 2015 by GeordieVillan

[ermie123]

I would like SHA's manager i think he will fit in nicely.  After Mr Sherwood stating that he didn't even no how to turn on a computer i thought well if he cannot do that then how on earth can he manage any football club anywhere!!

[MikeMcKenna]

 

Edited October 13, 2015 by MikeMcKenna
Replying to posts is screwed on my IPad for some reason!

[ermie123]

Ridiculous?  They you are then.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

Any need for the ridiculous quote tree?

[MikeMcKenna]

Moyes despite his disaster at Man U, did a fantastic job at Everton. Not that long ago Villa fans really wanted him and for me he would be a great manager that would stability back to our club that has been sinking for Yeats, 

[TRO]

I could not hazard a guess who would be right as the next manager if Tim Sherwood is fired.

It appears I  have been wrong in my judgement about all of them having a quiet acceptance of the all bar one.....Never thought AM was right for us.

However,I do have one fear on the subject, moving forward.......

Having watched with Interest the programme "Sir Alex Ferguson- The secret of success".....It was clear that all the attributes he had and instigated could never have materialised/implimented in 5 minutes.....Time was the main element to accompany his undoubted skills. The problem with Time is its only worth considering allowing it if the plans are feasible and are progressing.....otherwise its just an abstract.

Even Alex Ferguson acknowledged Managers don't get that time any longer, and If Jose Mourinho is in the predicament he is in , is there any hope for any of them?

I simply don't know whether Tim Sherwood has been given enough time and I am equally not sure if he should have stuck with a line up with a belief in his head or chopped and changed like he has....my suspicion is that what ever he did he would have had a different set of detractors saying he is wrong.

There is a danger in my mind that because he isn't winning.....and yes that is bad enough.....He will eventually get blamed for the Syrian Crisis......some of the stuff coming out, makes me say that, not all, but some.

Some fans don't Like Tim Sherwood -PERIOD, so right now their case/opinion is kinda bomb proof( and hey! they may prove to be right).....I am clearly not in a position to say they are wrong either, because I simply don't know enough about what he does behind closed doors, I am only privvy to performances and results on match day.......Alex Ferguson did have a similar problem and the fans got restless, but I guess he didn't have the indignation of 7 losses on the bounce or the unfortunate circumstance of changing 12 players in one window.....and David Gill backed what AF was doing with the youth.....don't forget the best player we ever had was bombed out by AF, so it was win,win for both of us.....sometimes decisions can be like that.

I will be surprised if TS can survive this, In terms of results he has accumulated too much consecutive poo.....but unlike some fans, I am no further satisfied, we will attract a manger to turn it around in the short term.

We just need a cement mixer full of LUCK IMO

Edited October 13, 2015 by TRO

[TRO]

I could not hazard a guess who would be right as the next manager if Tim Sherwood is fired.

It appears I  have been wrong in my judgement about all of them having a quiet acceptance of the all bar one.....Never thought AM was right for us.

However,I do have one fear on the subject, moving forward.......

Having watched with Interest the programme "Sir Alex Ferguson- The secret of success".....It was clear that all the attributes he had and instigated could never have materialised/implimented in 5 minutes.....Time was the main element to accompany his undoubted skills. The problem with Time is its only worth considering allowing it if the plans are feasible and are progressing.....otherwise its just an abstract.

Even Alex Ferguson acknowledged Managers don't get that time any longer, and If Jose Mourinho is in the predicament he is in , is there any hope for any of them?

I simply don't know whether Tim Sherwood has been given enough time and I am equally not sure if he should have stuck with a line up with a belief in his head or chopped and changed like he has....my suspicion is that what ever he did he would have had a different set of detractors saying he is wrong.

There is a danger in my mind that because he isn't winning.....and yes that is bad enough.....He will eventually get blamed for the Syrian Crisis......some of the stuff coming out, makes me say that, not all, but some.

Some fans don't Like Tim Sherwood -PERIOD, so right now their case/opinion is kinda bomb proof( and hey! they may prove to be right).....I am clearly not in a position to say they are wrong either, because I simply don't know enough about what he does behind closed doors, I am only privvy to performances and results on match day.......Alex Ferguson did have a similar problem and the fans got restless, but I guess he didn't have the indignation of 7 losses on the bounce or the unfortunate circumstance of changing 12 players in one window.....and David Gill backed what AF was doing with the youth.....don't forget the best player we ever had was bombed out by AF, so it was win,win for both of us.....sometimes decisions can be like that.

I will be surprised if TS can survive this, In terms of results he has accumulated too much consecutive poo.....but unlike some fans, I am no further satisfied, we will attract a manger to turn it around in the short term.

We just need a cement mixer full of LUCK IMO

 

I could not hazard a guess who would be right as the next manager if Tim Sherwood is fired.

It appears I  have been wrong in my about all of them having a quiet acceptance of the all bar one.....Never thought AM was right for us.

However,I do have one fear on the subject, moving forward.......

Having watched with Interest the programme "Sir Alex Ferguson- The secret of success".....It was clear that all the attributes he had and instigated could never have materialised/implimented in 5 minutes.....Time was the main element to accompany his undoubted skills. The problem with Time is its only worth considering allowing it is the plans are feasible and progressing.....otherwise its just an abstract.

Even Alex Ferguson acknowledged Managers don't get that time any longer, and If Jose Mourinho is in the predicament he is in , is there any hope for any of them?

I simply don't know whether Tim Sherwood has been given enough time and I am equally not sure if he should have stuck with a line up with a belief in his head or chopped and changed like he has....my suspicion is that what ever he did he would have had a different set of detractors saying he is wrong.

There is a danger in my mind that because he isn't winning.....and yes that is bad enough.....He will eventually get blamed for the Syrian Crisis......some of the stuff coming out, makes me say that, not all, but some.

Some fans don't Like Tim Sherwood -PERIOD, so right now their case/opinion is kinda bomb proof( and hey! they may prove to be right).....I am clearly not in a position to say they are wrong either, because I simply don't know enough about what he does behind closed doors, I am only privvy to performances and results on match day.......Alex Ferguson did have a similar problem and the fans got restless, but I guess he didn't have the indignation of 7 losses on the bounce or the unfortunate circumstance of changing 12 players in one window.....and David Gill backed what AF was doing with the youth.....don't forget the best player we ever had was bombed out by AF, so it was win,win for both of us.....sometimes decisions can be like that.

I will be surprised if TS can survive this, In terms of results he has accumulated too much consecutive poo.....but unlike some fans, I am no further satisfied, we will attract a manger to turn it around in the short term.

We just need a cement mixer full of LUCK IMO

                     PS as much as I'm tempted to sign up for the " shoot first ask questions later" camp, something tells me 8 games in to a new season, is no reasonable time to cull a new manager.....maybe the consequences out way the rationale and I'm just too indecisive.

                     PPS however, I have a nasty feeling after 2 more losses, I won't be quite so understanding.

 

Edited October 13, 2015 by TRO

[TRO]

sorry, for making a pigs ear of the format.....perhaps the moderators can help tidy up and save me.

Edited October 13, 2015 by TRO

[romavillan]

Ferguson is always brought out in support of giving managers more time and rightly so, United sticking with him when they had the finger on the trigger turned them into one of the biggest clubs in the world.

I'm all for giving a manager time, I argued a lot on here for giving Lambert time. He'd shown at the end of the first season that he could play an attacking brand of football using a lot of our academy players, I think I was always waiting for a return to that in some way and he just disappeared into his shell and we lost our way after the big beatings etc. Sherwood in fairness in some games last season and in a few pf the first games this season had us peppering the opposition goal and looking dangerous with some flair. It seems to just be getting worse though now, we're neither one thing nor the other again. Once again we can't score and can't keep clean sheets. It seemed like he had a commitment to a style and a philosophy of attacking football at one point. Now it all seems pretty haphazard and rudderless. Switching to a 4-2-4 away from home against a good side at 2-0 up with 25 mins to go was nothing short of completey mental. Instead of sticking to how we played in the 65 mins before then though he's tried to shore things up and castrated the attack in the process. 

Is more time for him going to work? I don't remember Ferguson saying he didn't want half his squad, that they weren't fit and a whole heap of other knackers when he was under pressure. I don't have a very clear memory of it as I was pretty young then but I think he always seemed pretty convinced with what he was doing and determined to hold on to what he thought was the right course. Tim has been slagging his own squad off and saying the complete opposite and showing on the pitch a lack of convictiion in the principles that have supplied the only positives of his reign. 

8 games is not a lot with a new squad. We have only 4 points though, and the signs don't point to Tim having a clear direction, if he is unsure how can the squad be fully committed to what he wants to do?

[TRO]

Ferguson is always brought out in support of giving managers more time and rightly so, United sticking with him when they had the finger on the trigger turned them into one of the biggest clubs in the world.

I'm all for giving a manager time, I argued a lot on here for giving Lambert time. He'd shown at the end of the first season that he could play an attacking brand of football using a lot of our academy players, I think I was always waiting for a return to that in some way and he just disappeared into his shell and we lost our way after the big beatings etc. Sherwood in fairness in some games last season and in a few pf the first games this season had us peppering the opposition goal and looking dangerous with some flair. It seems to just be getting worse though now, we're neither one thing nor the other again. Once again we can't score and can't keep clean sheets. It seemed like he had a commitment to a style and a philosophy of attacking football at one point. Now it all seems pretty haphazard and rudderless. Switching to a 4-2-4 away from home against a good side at 2-0 up with 25 mins to go was nothing short of completey mental. Instead of sticking to how we played in the 65 mins before then though he's tried to shore things up and castrated the attack in the process. 

Is more time for him going to work? I don't remember Ferguson saying he didn't want half his squad, that they weren't fit and a whole heap of other knackers when he was under pressure. I don't have a very clear memory of it as I was pretty young then but I think he always seemed pretty convinced with what he was doing and determined to hold on to what he thought was the right course. Tim has been slagging his own squad off and saying the complete opposite and showing on the pitch a lack of convictiion in the principles that have supplied the only positives of his reign. 

8 games is not a lot with a new squad. We have only 4 points though, and the signs don't point to Tim having a clear direction, if he is unsure how can the squad be fully committed to what he wants to do?

                     Can't argue with any of that except, TS has not exactly slagged the players off, in my view,that is a bit harsh, criticised yes, slagged off ,no

                      (Ferguson, did make known at the time there was a drinking culture at the club and he was going to stop it.....and players did get culled.)

                      I understand that it is not prudent to do, but he may feel he is in quicksand and is just explaining how he got there, to gain empathy for a tug out.

                      There are so many counter arguments i.e "attack is the best form of defence"....."get men behind the ball and keep your shape".....I think he has got himself in to a position like Lambert, where he doesn't know whether to stick of twist......quite frankly, I don't either.

                       However, if he gets them/the wins by judgment or sheer luck, its the only thing that may save him.

Edited October 13, 2015 by TRO

[Guest av1]

 

8 games is not a lot with a new squad. We have only 4 points though, and the signs don't point to Tim having a clear direction, if he is unsure how can the squad be fully committed to what he wants to do?

This is why he should be gone, irrelevant of what happens over the next few weeks/months.

He simply isn't a Manager, and professionals will (as they have) work that out pretty quickly.

[TRO]

Tim has all but told us there is no rhyme or reason to his strategy towards picking a team other than whether it happened to get a result and he'll chop and change until it happens to work. I don't want that level of 'expertise' at the club because it will only ever be a matter of time before he loses his magic formula again. It means every decision he makes, down to substitutions, is pure guesswork.

 

So irrespective of the next 2 or 5 or 10 results I want him gone.

 

I think far too much has been made of his recent interviews and this has been extrapolated into Tim throwing darts at the squad list and picking his starting line up based on that. I think he was trying to get across that he is trying to find the right formation, blend, combination of players etc. and this has been blown totally out of proportion.

As for your second comment - if we won, for example, 3 of the next 5 games, which isn't impossible (albeit unlikely given what we have seen so far), and we climbed up to mid-table and the players start to exude confidence and we suddenly click - you still want him gone? If we manage to win the next 5 games - you still want him gone? Or the next 10 games, you still want him gone? 

I don't see what he has done to deserve THAT. In no way has he burnt his bridges with me. He's made some very questionable decisions, we are on a very poor run, I'm very disappointed that what I thought might be a very good season for us looks like it might be another struggle, but I don't see why he shouldn't be given the opportunity to turn it around if results pick up.

For the avoidance of doubt, defeat in the next 2 games will most probably be enough for me to say enough is enough, but I'm not there yet.

                      I concur