John_Lerwill
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Hello fellers (if anyone is still listening!), I assembled the mailing list archive archive into a sort-of database format and distributed it to those who asked for it several years ago. It's still on my system. If anyone (from the old list) would like a copy please mail me via https://www.lerwill-life.org.uk/mailform.htm BTW, 'Malcolm' (Malcolm Everall) passed away in 2013 I think. I had a good respect for him actually - a knowledgeable feller about a few useful things. Cheers and UTV John (Lerwill)
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It’s a reflection on how much football (and Villa in particular) means to us, of course, but people should learn that what goes around comes around. Some of these messages to Lerner and his family will not produce any change at VP… only a formal protest has the possibility of success, but I rather think that it’s a bit late now for that. Nothing more is going to change structurally (now) for this season – which will simply end either in relegation or a magnificent recovery. Leicester got out of it at a very late stage, so while there’s life …
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Howdo, 'maq'! I'd love to see a supporters' buy-out of the club ... HOW it can be achieved is quite another thing. Back at the end of 1968 there was a deep-seated will to achieve change, but today I don't see the same commitment from the supporters. The world has become a different place entirely - I barely recognise it. Such a takeover needs a leader with strong commitment and some able lieutenants. And then there's the question of finding at least £150m. Thanks for asking me, and my opinion is that In the absence of the will being there, it doesn't stand a chance, I'm very sorry to say. With the will, virtually anything can be accomplished, even though difficulties may threaten the project.
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Clearly not Doug ... he was not there in 67/68 (relegation from Div 1 in 1967) and 70/71 (relegation from Div 2 in 1970) happened essentially as the momentum for recovery was not yet fully in place after the club had been left to atrophy by the previous incumbants, particularly chairman Buckley. When Tommy Doc's appointment took place I think everyone was very happy ... but unfortunately his approach didn't work out, hence relegation in 1970.
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Thanks a lot, John, for confirming the 1981-82 attendances (and those of 1980-81). It was clearly the 1981-82 season I had in mind, just prior to Doug's re-entry onto the scene. Doug was clearly worried about the sustainability of paying such high wages against a backdrop of falling attendances (and below the break-even point), and though another chairman may well have been more creative to enable the club to build, Doug just took a pragmatic business decision - which was of course counter-productive. On whether Doug took more money out of the club than Randy ... maybe. But I have to go back to the 60s to recall the last time Villa were spending so many seasons trying to steer clear of relegation. And I've never known a Villa team to have such an awful and prolonged home record. So on those issues the present incumbent's record is inferior to Doug's, and in a substantially lesser period of time. I have stated (above, before) that we've not really had a good chairman since 1925 (Rinder), so we're in agreement on that score.
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OK, you've tried hard to prove me wrong but I don't recognise all those attendances - but I have to admit I'm running from memory as my 2010 Complete Record is stored away at the moment (house move). I'm not usually inclined to accept what's on Wiki (so, so many errors!) but taking it that those figures you've given are right, apart from 4 out of the last 6 matches and two others they're still not spectacular for a supposed big side pressing for the championship, and not really enough to fund a take off for the club. Villa's players were so supposed to be on the biggest wage at that time, I believe. And I seem to recall Doug saying that 25,000 was the break-even point for the club. Again I could be wrong, but I suspect that season 1981-82 showed a big drop in attendances. Maybe it was that season I was thinking of. I'll have to dig out my Complete Record ...
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I don't like to argue, Rev, but when researching the Villa history for that period I did check on other clubs - Liverpool, Man U - and didn't see any downturn to speak of. There may have been downturn at other clubs though.
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The attendances in the 2010 "Complete Record" show that they dipped in the 1980-81 championship season - except for 2 or 3 or so very big matches - to 25,000 and under. That was down to the Midlands economic depression that started around that time I believe. The attendances seem to have stayed low in the early 80s.
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Fair dos, FF ... He (Bendall) was there when Villa achieved worthwhile silverware and that will keep his name remembered I suppose. Yes, we're still waiting for Fred Rinder to re-appear! It's been usually a rather sad story since he went, apart from that magical period of 81 and 82.
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Apologies, Pete ... a bit of over-quick reading on my part. Probably aided by the fact that the infrastructure issue (though of no small value) is probably the least important matter.
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Well, Pete, we all view things in different ways, and I did say Doug "had failings", and a number of those failings are some of those you have listed. However, the interesting thing is that if Doug had not made his move to takeover, what would have happened? I don't think anyone really knows the answer to that question. However, I'd disagree strongly that Lerner was good at "appointing ... good people". I'd bet there are quite a few who'd criticise his last two CEO appointments (and their various appointments, including team manager recommendations), especially as they've been visibly non-football people ... and what about the first CEO he did appoint that didn't take long in giving up after trying to convince Lerner of the way to go (if I am to read things correctly). Anyhow, this matter of the last two chairmen has been dragged through the mire without achieving much. I'd say we've been lacking good chairmen since 1925 apart from 1969 to 1982 and I frankly don't hold much hope that things will improve in that department. A fans' takeover is the only way to go for me, but the cost of doing so is so prohibitive. Perhaps we should start again ... I'll let you take the part of Ramsay, Pete!
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That may well be ... but all you're effectively saying is that either he put all his eggs in one basket from the off or he got cold feet in 2010. From my perspective I'd say that whether we're talking pure football or pure business, it's the actions of the last 5 years that do not make much sense, both financially and appointments-wise. In particular, from the little I understand his family trust fund seems to play a big part in financial decisions made, and it would seem to me that it's that which is the probable main culprit if Villa do go down the pan (do they pocket TV revenues?). Aided by the fact that he seems to trust only non-football people. Was the MON experience that bad?!!!
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On the matter of Doug, I was always willing to give him some support and though I agree he had his failings I can't entirely blame him for what happened in the early 80s - after he came back as chairman. You might not recall that the Midlands' depression hit the attendances at Villa quite a lot so that even when we won the championship there were times when 25,000 was a good attendance - sometimes a it was a lot less than that. And at a time when the maximum gate was around 48,000. He also inherited the North Stand fiasco and (I think) financial ramifications from the previous incumbant. So, as the attendance money was then the main source of revenue (I'd think) those attendances were not going to support Villa's ambitions - unless Doug put his own money in. I wonder how wealthy he was at that time? At least you knew where you where with Doug ... not this entity who announced a "Bright Future", built a platform for people to stand on and then effectively kicked it away from under their feet! In my book that's what makes him for me more unforgiveable. Anyway ... in the light of the world's calamities, there's a lot more to be concerned about...
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An excellent post and I totally agree with your expectations as they were, now and the future. But ... we have been through very difficult times in the past 3 years with less than 25% wins at home (and 50% defeats) and an average of about 1 Villa goal scored per match. On top of that the biggest defeat in Villa's history occurred last season. Though I accept this is a transition period, I am not happy with the progress at home, in particular. In some ways we seem to have gone back to the situation as things were in the mid 1960s, and that led to a terrible decline in the club's fortunes. I didn''t think we'd want to re-visit those times. To stand a chance of reaching expectation (4), my feeling is that there needs to be something a little more ambitious about our signings. The manager can get the club to its rightful place, but the strategy will need to be updated i.m.o., assuming that expectation (3) is reached.
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I'm just going by what tends to be the accepted minimum norm to stay up ... 40 points. In fact it may well be 36 or 37 points for safety this season ... but it doesn't give Villa that much scope, does it? Villa have just not been showing enough character to give me a warm glow that safety is a given. Too often 2-goal leads have been squandered ... too often we've lost at home. And we've the worst GD in the Prem.
